You are right for the wrong reasons. Troops can't win Iraq. House to house engagements just put our soldiers in harm's way and force them to make decisions that they are later vilified for.

Instead we should have left our ground troops out of the fight until the citizenry overwhelmingly longed for an end to the destruction, and therefore would see insurgency as a continuation of their suffering, instead of their "liberation".

You do a disservice to the people you claim to support when you call for more of them to be used as targets.

You do a disservice to the people you claim to support when you call for more of them to be used as targets.

Reply By: BakerStreetPosted: Tuesday, June 20, 2006

 

don't you See the more people killed plays right into genes hands then he gets to continue to vilify the military along with Bush.

I do not know what military training you both have had but what you are saying goes against ALL the military tactics we have employed successfully. More troops do not make more targets because with the higher troop levels you PREVENT the insurgents from being able to conduct such operations. In addition, the higher troop levels would have enable the control of the hundreds of Ammo Dumps and weapons cashes that are the source of the weapons and explosives that are being used to kill our forces.

One thing is correct - It should have been the Iraqi People that removed Saddam when that had enough of his cruelty and NOT the UNITED STATES Military!!!

I think the real obstacle is political.

If the U.S. wanted, it could establish martial law and sweep each city from end to end, and bomb anybody the caught driving a car after curfew or without clearance.

But this isn't just a war zone. It's also a nation full of free Iraqis, trying to form their own Iraqi government, establish their own Iraqi law and order, and apply their own Iraqi dreams and values to the country.

So the coalition forces have to take the longer, more complicated and difficult route: limited engagements followed by premature pull-back, to avoid creating the unfortunate impression (and fact) of U.S. disregard for Iraqi concerns and Iraqi sovreignty.

Far from being a disaster, I find the Iraq thing to be a progressively better and better thing. Challenging, difficult, definitely not the easy way, and probably not the best way. But a good way, and better than doing nothing at all.

Wow. Something new & different from Gene.

How many times can you write about the same thing? You are going to make it real hard for Bush to be re-elected in '08.

http://moderateman.joeuser.com/index.asp?AID=121304

here you go gene, enjoy the carnage.

You seem pretty invested in your hope that the US fails in Iraq. 

Okay, fine, let's leave Iraq and let the terrorists take control of it. Is that your solution?

"Okay, fine, let's leave Iraq and let the terrorists take control of it. Is that your solution?"

There was an interview with an Iraqi military commander last night on Frontline that spoke volumes. He said in no uncertain terms that the US should not leave Iraq, and that if we did we could count on horrific results.

It is common sense, really. Iran, Syria, and others would pour millions into their pet insurgencies to destabilize the nation. Granted, if we are there for a lot longer and the Iraqi people refuse to step up to the plate, then I won't care. From what I see and hear, though, the current complacency is defeatable, so long as we show the insurgency to be.

There was a great part of that Frontline where they interviewed a journalist that spent a lot of time with insurgents. He said that between the first and second elections there was a huge change in attitude. He said taking part in an election would have been unthinkable in the beginning to the Sunni insurgents, but by the time of the second election they realized that the government was going to take hold, and they'd better take part. They actually GUARDED polling places from attack.

That's a slight change, but the change will become more progressive as time goes on so long as other, outside powers aren't allowed to bait civil war. People there realize that civil war is the aim, and they aren't buying into it nearly as much as we think. It is becoming easier and easier to blame the Zarqawi types, and that shows that the cut and run attitude is counter productive.

Draginol

I do not HOPE we fail. However, I know that the issues that have faced Iraq since its formation are not resolved. The three factions do not get along and the loyalty is to their faction not Iraq overall. The level of violence has been able to get to this level because when the power that Saddam exercised, which kept these sectarian differences from active conflict, was not replaced with the level of control by the U S Forces due to a lack of manpower. That was evident from the first day when the rioting broke out and it is clear we did not have the force levels in country to control the factions and keep them from moving to action.

If Bush had allowed what is a military decision to be handled by those with the military experience, we would have sent the "Overwhelming Force" levels called for by the Iraq invasion plan. Then the sectarian violence would not have gotten to the level it is today and when we turned the security over to the new Iraqi government they would have had a much better chance of being able to keep the sectarian differences under control.

The likely scenario is that after we leave the factions will overwhelm the new government's military and police forces and they will “have at it”. I also believe it is likely that the sectarian loyalties will show up in the new police forces (it already has) and even in some elements of the new military. The dislike of the factions in Iraq has existed for more then a 100 years and the U.S. staying only insures we spend billions more and have more dead and wounded. It is time for the people of Iraq to make this new country work or settle the century old disagreements in another way.

I can understand why the leaders who we enabled to come to power want us to stay. I bet if you asked ALL the Iraqi people the vast majority want the United States to leave NOW!

Saddam was a person that needed to be removed from power in Iraq. The problem is that he should have been overthrown by the Iraqi people NOT the U.S. Military!

The American military has been used as a police force post Saddam which is why the occupation has failed. The US military is purely a machine of destruction, it follows the Prussian tradition. The British 'soft cap' policy works much better which is why British controlled areas of Iraq are much calmer than US controlled areas.

The US cannot peace keep!

"Okay, fine, let's leave Iraq and let the terrorists take control of it. Is that your solution?"

As long as the US is there there will be a constant stream of foreign Jihadists and an even more inexhaustable stream of domestic insurgents who are angry at the occupation of their country.

Only the Iraqis can deal with the terrorists, if they are willing, which is why America cannot stay and "win". Civil war is inevitable, the only question is who will emerge as dominant.

I bet if you asked ALL the Iraqi people the vast majority want the United States to leave NOW!

And I bet if you asked all the JU'ers they would want you to stop these pointless articles.

Saddam was a person that needed to be removed from power in Iraq. The problem is that he should have been overthrown by the Iraqi people NOT the U.S. Military!

How many times do you have to be told this? My goodness. The Iraqis TRIED TO OVERTHROW SADDAM SEVERAL TIMES......that is where the MASS GRAVES CAME FROM.

Observer

I agree it is VERY likely that Civil War will be the mechanism of resolution in Iraq. The Moslem world and most other non Moslem countries will then place the blame for that Civil War at our door step (where it will belong). Again I say the Iraqi People should have been the way Saddam was deposed NOT the U.S. Military. Bush has created no Win option because if we stay we will see more deaths, injuries, billions being spent and we create more enemies the longer we remain as occupiers in Iraq. When we leave the Civil War that will most likely follow will be our fault. As Powell said, break it and it is yours. Well Bush broke it and America has the problem. Great going George!!!!!!!!