The Bush individual accounts do not solve the funding problem for Social Security

No, but it solves some others. One of which you (Col) were bitching about on another post. The way the surplus/deficit is stated, by including the SS funds (or off budget items) in the total budget numbers (which has been happening since '33, except I don't imagine you bitched when it was Clinton reporting it).

It also solves the problem of Congress controlling and getting their hands on the funds (at least part of it). IT also solves the pathetic return of 1.5% (generous estimate) we get on our contributions. It also helps solve the tax rape that self employed individuals get by paying self employment tax.

TB

the deficit is not an end by 2008 and a and if you don't believe it just the Office of Management and Budget and web site which clearly shows will be a continuing deficit is for out as the eye can see. In addition, the cumulative deficit as of 2008 per President Bush is just short of $10 trillion upon which we must pay interest each and every year.

Creating individual accounts has nothing to do what Congress is spending. If the Social Security trust fund was not lending money to the government would need to sell more bonds to people like the Chinese the Russians the French or for that matter Americans to fund the continuing deficit.

To propose a solution of private accounts when that solution does not address the problem is either stupid or there is an alternate reason why is Bush wants to privatize Social Security - so the Wall Street tycoons can make billions in fees. I have yet to see one word from President Bush as to how we pay for the transition other than borrowing more money. Who will pay the annual fees to maintain these millions of accounts and how much will be charged investors. For a worker investing a $1000 per year at 8% has $80 per year in investment income from which the account maintenance fee will be deducted. If the investment firm charges 35 or $40 as a fee to maintain that account as a truly big deal for that average investor.

Social Security needs to be looked at as a floor that is guaranteed. we need to encourage each and every person to build on top of Social Security with IRA's or 401(k). Too many people will not put aside the money needed nor are they capable of making investment decisions. That is why maintaining the assurance of Social Security not subject to market fluctuations is the best thing for the majority of Americans.

The entire way in which this administration has addressed the fiscal affairs is a joke. For 21 of the last 24 years we have spent considerably more than we were willing to tax. The Republican party that I believes in balanced budgets and yes if we cannot balance the budget with spending cuts or increasing GDP growth that means increased taxes. What we cannot continue to make believe someone else is going to pay for what were spending. The Brutal truth is that someone else is going to be our children and our grandchildren under the policy of George W. Bush and conservative Republicans controlling the government of the United States of America.

the deficit is not an end by 2008 and a and if you don't believe it just the Office of Management and Budget and web site which clearly shows will be a continuing deficit is for out as the eye can see

Whoosh. That's the sound of the posts going right over your head apparently. Your response is barely intelligible. You have asserted crisis, I have demonstrated with actual numbers and a possible scenario, you're full of BS.

CBO numbers have the estimated deficit in '08 down to 1.7% of GDP, or about $244 B. Where is your $10 T number from?

Who will pay the annual fees to maintain these millions of accounts

There doesn't have to be ANY FEES. I regularly put people in financial products that charge NOTHING, produce double digit returns, provide that the account balances can NEVER go down, and for which their is no real "investment decision" to make (unless, of course, you can't decide between A, B or C).

An individual that put $20/week away at the SS return number (approx. 1.5%) would have an account balance of approx. $39,000 in 30 years. Contrast that with the same individual at the same savings rate getting 7.5% (not particularly great, but fair), their account balance at the end of 30 years is approx. $111,000. Which is a greater benefit? Even you ought ot be able to get this one right.

The $7.6 Trillion debt is fact. The $330 Billion in interest is fact. The $600 Billion last year is Fact. It is you that is full of BS. You and all the other Bush supporters. Hope you have fun paying for all the tax cuts and sepnding increase that Bush has given you!

The $7.6 Trillion debt is fact. The $330 Billion in interest is fact. The $600 Billion last year is Fact. It is you that is full of BS. You and all the other Bush supporters. Hope you have fun paying for all the tax cuts and sepnding increase that Bush has given you!

Here COL whine about this one. You'll be paying right along with the rest of us.

drmiler

At least I will know why and who was responsible. You will still be following the white rabbit with a pocket watch down a little hole.

At least I will know why and who was responsible. You will still be following the white rabbit with a pocket watch down a little hole.

Not unless you make sure I get my LSD I won't!

The $7.6 Trillion debt is fact. The $330 Billion in interest is fact. The $600 Billion last year is Fact. It is you that is full of BS. You and all the other Bush supporters. Hope you have fun paying for all the tax cuts and sepnding increase that Bush has given you!

Hmm are you talking out of your ass? Sources?

XX

For$7.6 Trillion and $330 Billion in interest go to www.publicdebt.treas.gov/opd/opdint.htm. If you have a problem just use google and look for Federal debt and you will locate the Treas dept.

Actual interest in 2004 per the Treasury $321,566,323,971.29

Actual National Debt as of 12/31/2004 per the Treasury $7,596,165,867,424.14

As for the $600 billion last year you go to OMB Table S-10 Budget Summary

Start with the reported deficit which per the President was $412 Billion
Remove the surplus in Soc Sec and Medicare to reduce the debt 200 Billion

$612 Billion

The impact of adding the Surplus in Social Secxurity and Medicare to reduce the annual budget deficit is explained at the following site;

www.cepr.net/real_budget.htm
This is Center For Economic And Policy Research site if you have a problem.

You are the one passing gas.

XX For$7.6 Trillion and $330 Billion in interest go to www.publicdebt.treas.gov/opd/opdint.htm. If you have a problem just use google and look for Federal debt and you will locate the Treas dept. Actual interest in 2004 per the Treasury $321,566,323,971.29 Actual National Debt as of 12/31/2004 per the Treasury $7,596,165,867,424.14 As for the $600 billion last year you go to OMB Table S-10 Budget Summary Start with the reported deficit which per the President was $412 Billion Remove the surplus in Soc Sec and Medicare to reduce the debt 200 Billion $612 Billion The impact of adding the Surplus in Social Secxurity and Medicare to reduce the annual budget deficit is explained at the following site; www.cepr.net/real_budget.htm This is Center For Economic And Policy Research site if you have a problem. You are the one passing gas.

Hey COL have you noticed that your the only one that keeps going on and on about this subject?

drmiler

First I was answering the question of XX. Second, that is because you and the other Bushies never answer the questions or propose solutions to the issues at hand. Today the AP reported the fiscal problem of Medicare is four times larger then Social Security and needs to begin using the Medicare Trust fund much sooner then Social Security. I have asked why Bush is telling the American People about the BIG SOCIAL SECURITY PROBLEM while he does nothing about the much larger and more immediate issue of Medicare. He has a similar problem with Medicade and his soultion for that is to transfer the problem to the states. Why do I keep on these matters? Because Bush is doing nothing to solve them!

$330 Billion in interest go to www.publicdebt.treas.gov/opd/opdint.htm

Your bias really detracts from any credibility. Per this site, the interest on the debt was over $360 B in '98 and '00 (Clinton budgets), and over $350 B in '99 and '97. The interest has gone DOWN over 10% (not including the time value of money, which would make the % greater) under Bush.

The impact of adding the Surplus in Social Secxurity and Medicare to reduce the annual budget deficit is explained

Once again, it's been reported this way for Decades. Not unique to GW.

because you and the other Bushies never answer the questions or propose solutions

I've already shown you a solution, you ignored it.

Why do I keep on these matters? Because Bush is doing nothing to solve them!

BS again. Privatizing SS will help solve Medicaid problems (though I'm sure with your anti-Bush bias you'll ignore this too). When retirees have significantly LARGER liquid assets due to getting 4 or 5 times the returns on what SS would give them and owning it, they won't need Medicaid to to take care of them (or for that matter, even qualify).

All you have demonstrated is a hatred for Bush, not truth nor objectiveness. None of the numbers you cite are earth shattering, or new, or even out of line with recent administrations (in many instances they are better). One thing is certain, we could solve some energy problems with all the hot air you continue to blow.

TB

Annual interest in the past has been higher than the 321 billion for 2004. It was higher from 1995 through 2002. There is a very basic - the 46 year low interest rates not because the total debt was lower. In 2001 the debt was $5.7 Trillion and today it is $7.6 Trillion. This is one of my points, when interest rates return to their historic norm and are applied to the total deficit which has skyrocketed under Bush, we're going to be looking toward $500 billion per year in interest. The historic blended interest rate according to the treasury on US debt is 5.1%. If you apply 5.1% to $10 trillion which is what George W. Bush projects it will be by the time he leaves office, you have interest per year of over $500 billion dollars.

The Unified Budget which combines the surpluses in Social Security and Medicare with the federal budget is not new under George W. Bush. However we were not running the huge deficits prior to George W. Bush. By combining the surplus in Social Security which is a standalone system and Medicare which is again a standalone system with the federal budget the size of the federal deficit is distorted by making it look far less than it truly is.

The principal adviser to President Bush on Social Security has acknowledged that creating private accounts not solve the funding problem with Social Security. The issue is insure the solvency of Social Security. To propose a solution that does not solve that problem is ridiculous and from every poll that I read the vast majority of Americans do not agree with George W. Bush on the conversion to private accounts for Social Security. We need to educate every worker to save money in addition to what they pay into Social Security as an equity investment. The way to solve the Social Security shortfall for the baby boomers is to lift the cap on Social Security earnings the same as the Medicare tax and that $100 plus billion dollars per year should be invested in a broad based equities and bonds within the Social Security Trust Fund. That will give you the higher yield from equity investments on that additional hundred billion dollars each year. The $100 billion each year will delay the date in which the out flow will exceed the tax revenue ( estimated at 2018 under the current system) and add even more to the trust fund. The impact of a hundred billion dollars compounded at even 7% within the Trust Fund will solve the funding issue of Social Security without changing the basic guarantees that protect the vast majority of Americans. There is no doubt that some people would benefit from individual accounts but the reality is the vast majority would be better off retaining the current guarantees. In any event, neither George W. Bush nor the Congress should make any radical change in Social Security unless the vast majority of Americans are in agreement.

The Unified Budget which combines the surpluses in Social Security and Medicare with the federal budget is not new under George W. Bush. However we were not running the huge deficits prior to George W. Bush. By combining the surplus in Social Security which is a standalone system and Medicare which is again a standalone system with the federal budget the size of the federal deficit is distorted by making it look far less than it truly is.

Sorry but this won't wash! If the Unified Budget is NOT new under Bush. Then he hasn't been lying about the budget any more than ANY other president. You CAN NOT call him on something the rest have done too.

The principal adviser to President Bush on Social Security has acknowledged that creating private accounts not solve the funding problem with Social Security. The issue is insure the solvency of Social Security. To propose a solution that does not solve that problem is ridiculous and from every poll that I read the vast majority of Americans do not agree with George W. Bush on the conversion to private accounts for Social Security.

And every poll I've read says the opposite. So now who do we believe?