GWB admitted that Daddy got him into and out of the Guard. I have confirmation from the man Bush told this to at Harvard! You are Full of BS .

Political HACK!

The only proof you have is your own interview of a man that was Mr. Bush's professer in school years ago. Please explain how you became the sole person this professor has confided in when this first came to light 15 years ago. With all the resorses of CBS news that was looking for anything to attack Mr. Bush on over three elections still has not been able to get this professor to come forward. Was he living in a hole in the ground or in outer space and did not notice all the press reorts on the situation and then by magic notice you and stepped forward? Why has this person not come forward to the mainstream press? CBS will print forged documents rather than produce one person who says he heard it from the mouth of the man they want to lose the election. Having seen your diligent research in the past I have serious doubts that this person spoke to you on the subject. You have been caught in so many lies in the past your credibility is gone. Had you even addressed facts brougt to you from time to time I might give you the benefit of the doubt but no more. You have lied too many times in the past to give you any slack now. Until today you were innocent until proven guilty, now you are guilty of telling lies until proven innocent. As an example when I make a mistake and it is brought to my attention I admit it, most times thanking the person, and move on. You are dishonest.

oh, the lawyering...as if we were in a criminal court,,,lmfao!

Paladin77

WRONG Again

Prof. Tsurumi published his comments in the NYT as well as several other newspapers. He and I exchanged E-mails and letters when I was researching Bush for my book. It is Just like the Secretary of Bush's CO that typed the ORDER directing Bush to take his physical. It is Just like Ben Barnes, former Speaker of the Taxes House that publicly said he got GWB as well as other well connected young men into the Guard. I had to complete 4 years of ROTC as well as Summer Camp to be granted a Commission. GWB was handed a Commission without doing a thing. I served in the Regular Army (I was a Distinguished Military Graduate and accepted a Regular Army Commission as an Artillery Officer) from 1964-1968 and then spent 26 more years in the Army Reserve. I obeyed the orders I was given and EARNED my Honorable Discharge in 1993. Just a Bit Different form the Commander-in-Chief. This Colonel is ashamed of the current Commander in Chief.

You have been caught in so many lies in the past your credibility is gone.

now THAT'S funny...

Until today you were innocent until proven guilty, now you are guilty of telling lies until proven innocent. As an example when I make a mistake and it is brought to my attention I admit it, most times thanking the person, and move on. You are dishonest.

The only proof you have is your own interview of a man that was Mr. Bush's professer in school years ago. Please explain how you became the sole person this professor has confided in when this first came to light 15 years ago.

guess we'll be waiting on that admission now.

CNN also reported the prof's statements...as did many others...WWW Link

Having seen your diligent research in the past I have serious doubts that this person spoke to you on the subject. You have been caught in so many lies in the past your credibility is gone.

On this topic I have accused you wrongly. I still have serious doubts about the story but not your part in it. Please accept my apology.

It is Just like Ben Barnes, former Speaker of the Taxes House that publicly said he got GWB as well as other well connected young men into the Guard.

Ok, so where did Mr. Bush lie? He said neither he nor his father did anything to get him into the Guard. Even Mr. Barnes said he did it at the request of family friends. I have friends that helped me get government jobs including my current position as a consultant to our government. Did my father, a decorated veteran of WWII, help me? Nope. Did my mother a retired NYC cop pull any strings? Nope. Did their friends help me becaue I made it known that I was interested in the job? Sure, I found out last week I had an assist. It happens but it was not someting I was seeking or asked for. More like hey what are you up to, you still managing property in sunny Florida? Yeah, but I want to help out by going back to government work but I am too old to run around with my M-16 kicking in doors and knifing terrorist. A month later my application was approved and I went through the same process as everyone else. How would I know I had help? Should I quit my job now becaue I found out after the fact that I had help? Yeah, right.

Paladin77

Are you on Drugs? Barnes got bush into the guard because of the Connections of daddy. Bush admitted that to his professor as I have stated. The point is that GWB thought his life has had his Father's contacts Give him what ever he needed. Commission he did not earn or deserve. Early honorable discharge he did not deserve. Entry to Harvard Grad School with "C" Grades. Investors to start two companies that GWB ran into the ground. The job as GM of the Texas Rangers. The support to run for Governor and president with NO experience of any worth. Bush is an example of how to succeed with NO achievements of his own but on the coat tails of Daddy! What he has done to this country is a good example of how that turns out.

Bush lied when he said he met his obligations to the Guard. Disobeying regulations and failure to attend drills and maintain his flight qualifications are not meeting the responsibilities he agreed to when he accepted the Commission in the National Guard that he DID NOT DESERVE! When the responsibilities he agreed in the military conflicted with his being a part of a political campaign in late 1972/73, GWB did what he wanted not what he had agreed to do when commissioned! He FAILED TO MEET HIS RESPONSIBILITIES and then Daddy made it OK so Little George did not have to face the music!

Well Daddy can not FIX the things Little George has screwed up as President.

Are you on Drugs? Barnes got bush into the guard because of the Connections of daddy. Bush admitted that to his professor as I have stated. The point is that GWB thought his life has had his Father's contacts Give him what ever he needed. Commission he did not earn or deserve. Early honorable discharge he did not deserve. Entry to Harvard Grad School with "C" Grades. Investors to start two companies that GWB ran into the ground. The job as GM of the Texas Rangers. The support to run for Governor and president with NO experience of any worth. Bush is an example of how to succeed with NO achievements of his own but on the coat tails of Daddy! What he has done to this country is a good example of how that turns out.

Sorry political hack I don't do drugs other than heart meds. MBA from Harvard is not an accomplishment cause everyone has an MBA from that school, well except Ted Kennedy. C grades or not he still has the sheep skin. The military of which you say you served issued him a discharge same as mine. of course the entire military is going to bend and break the rules in order to help the son of a congressman. Are you saying your military is that corrupt? It is so easy to get your discharge changed and upgraded it is hard to believe that people had to pull strings.

I have investors when I started my company and my dad was not a congressman.

Until you are elected to the office of president what experience does anyone have? All Clinton had was he was Governor of a poorly run state. Oh wait, the country went the way of Arkansas. When Mr. Clinton was Governor the state went for 29 to 49th in education. The nation slipped 15 points in education in the world standing. Great experience he had. Political hack. The purose of this article is Stem Cell Researh. You got blown away on that poorly researched article and you quickly change the subject. I answered you because I did not want you to misunderstand my silence as agreement.

Bush lied when he said he met his obligations to the Guard. Disobeying regulations and failure to attend drills and maintain his flight qualifications are not meeting the responsibilities he agreed to when he accepted the Commission in the National Guard that he DID NOT DESERVE! When the responsibilities he agreed in the military conflicted with his being a part of a political campaign in late 1972/73, GWB did what he wanted not what he had agreed to do when commissioned! He FAILED TO MEET HIS RESPONSIBILITIES and then Daddy made it OK so Little George did not have to face the music!

col Political Hack

The man has a honorable dishcharge issued by the US military. You only get one of those if you met all the obligations. I know because I have one. Looks like you did not want him to have one but try as you might the facts are facts, no matter what he did or did not do he has the discharge that proves you wrong.

On this topic I have accused you wrongly. I still have serious doubts about the story but not your part in it. Please accept my apology.

well done. credit where it's due goes here.

You got blown away on that poorly researched article and you quickly change the subject.

actually, others changed the subject after the col used iraq as an example of everything being controlled by bush when asked about holding democrats accountable, reffereing to recent corruption.

i saw nothing legitimately arguing against him. only supposed "evidence" that turned out to be from the larouche camp and people interested in making money off of adult stems. that and people using their overall political philosophies to contend that the govt has no business in research whatsoever. which i disagree with.

the best point countering the stem cell debate got buried in political rhetoric here actually. that was the recent studies showing other alternatives to embryonic stem cells in early results were very successful. still not thoroughly scientifically tested, but promising.

but the main objections to the research out in the rest of the world are that of religious objections, which no one really tackled here.

the way most of americans see it is that the federal govt, for better or worse, does fund scientific research in this field. and if they are going to do it, they shouldn't be doing it half baked. yes, maybe some moral objections need to be addressed, but they don't need to "block" any and all of this research that is very promising.

no lives are being saved by blocking this research. blocking this research doesn't promote life in any way as most of the samples are discarded anyway.

but those opposed to the research don't want to have that discussion. they just want to say no and that is the end of it. the extreme of the other side wants "research uberalles" with no constraint on what they can and cannot do.

and in between is a mountain of middle ground. and in the end, we'll probably land somewhere on that mountain.

Paladin77

"The man has an honorable discharge issued by the US military. You only get one of those if you met all the obligations. "

Yes so do I have an Honorable Discharge? As a Former Commanding Officer of three units I know that any military member that did what Bush, without PULL, would have been punished and would not have received an Honorable Discharge. He may have been separated with a General or Bad Conduct Discharge but GWB did not earn the Honorable Discharge he was given because of Daddy's connections! If GWB was John Smith having done the VERY same things that Lt. Bush did, the treatment they would have received would have been VERY DIFFERENT. Some senior military member failed to perform his duty and allowed an Officer to disobey orders and be rewarded for his actions. It happened and it is WRONG. There should be a detailed investigation (Cold Case) and uncover ALL the Facts and then revoke GWB Honorable Discharge and if alive, punish any former member of the military that was part of this despicable action.

Sean - We did get off subject. Getting back to your statement:

"but the main objections to the research out in the rest of the world are that of religious objections, which no one really tackled here.”


I did address that issue:

"The sanctity of life is the chant. The truth is that there are over 400,000 frozen stem cells that are the result of In Vitro Fertilization. The vast majority of these stem cells will be destroyed as medical waste. The issue is WHY not allow Federally Funded research using these Stem cells that will be destroyed eventually."

How is this a Sanctity of Life Issue if the frozen stem cells will be destroyed even if they are not used for research?

In addition what Bush and the Conservatives are doing is imposing their religious beliefs upon everyone.

I did address that issue:

i know, but they didn't. unless i missed it in the 200+ replies, lol

i saw nothing legitimately arguing against him. only supposed "evidence" that turned out to be from the larouche camp and people interested in making money off of adult stems. that and people using their overall political philosophies to contend that the govt has no business in research whatsoever. which i disagree with.

On this point I agree with you. I don't mind the Government funding most things to jumpstart something that can help. What I object to is people demanding that the government fund every stupid idea anyone can think of. In this case there was no federally subsidized before Mr. Bush authorized it because it might help. He limited the lines of research to make it easier for the religions supporters he has. (understandable) I don't care because I don't think religion is the issue other than it was used as a reason to bash the President unfairly. The man tries to help and is bashed because he did not go far enough when no one was doing anything on the topic before him. The reasoning for funding was to see if the hints of promise would lead to anything useful. There is still no proof one way or the other that any stem cell research will lead to anything useful. Why expand the lines authorized when what is already in the system have not been used up? If any private facility wishes to do research they can do so on their own dime using whatever lines they wish. If they wish to use federal money then they have to follow federal rules. What is the problem?

but the main objections to the research out in the rest of the world are that of religious objections, which no one really tackled here.

Again that is not my point, or contention. I want smaller government, lower taxes, and less government involvment in my life. Anything that lowers the money the government spends on things that the private industry can do is ok by me.

I know that any military member that did what Bush, without PULL, would have been punished and would not have received an Honorable Discharge.

I disagree. The standard punishment is the loss of flight status and flight pay. It happens all the time. I had an officer that lost his flight status and he became a special operations platoon commander, he hid the fact that his eyes were going by dodging his flight physical. He wanted to fly but could not, he was not court marshalled or repremanded further than the lost of his flight status. This is why I disagree with your belief that he had special treatment deserving of loss of his discharge.

The truth is that there are over 400,000 frozen stem cells that are the result of In Vitro Fertilization. The vast majority of these stem cells will be destroyed as medical waste. The issue is WHY not allow Federally Funded research using these Stem cells that will be destroyed eventually."

And any company or research facility that wants to use them can but until the lines authorized are used up the only President to authorize federal funding of stem cell research says this is how he wants it done and the Congress agrees with him. It is law. What more can you do to change the law? Get a majority of Congress to re-write the law.

drmiler GWB admitted that Daddy got him into and out of the Guard. I have confirmation from the man Bush told this to at Harvard! You are Full of BS .

"I'm" full of it? Show me "documented proof! And show the confirmation from the man from Harvard!