Before you yell at me... pay attention to the details.

That says cost and profits. I can't speak for the refining costs because once we sell our oil/gas; we don't see anymore direct data.

I can tell you without a doubt that it costs a lot more to get it out of he ground because everyone is busting ass to get it done. Realistic figures run like this: In 1999 my company was paying $350/day for a well site supervisor (his job is exactly as it sounds, he is responsible for everything at the rig). Just two years ago that day rate was at $600. Today I am lucky to see someone at $1050 a day.

We are killing our guys for that price. Our average WSS works 49-50 weeks a year. In the past we could get a one year contract on a rig now three years is a minimum. In turn I have to charge my clients more to cover my future rig costs because as quick as this business booms it also dries up.

Look, I get it. You went to fill up and your panties are in a bunch over it but you really don't know what you are talking about. You look at raw figures without regard to margins and then say profits are outrageous when the real reason profits are up is because consumption is up. Consumption further drives the price you pay at the pump up because it is harder to keep up with demand. Refineries are paying overtime rates to men who make $40/hr+. $.75 a gallon including cost to maintain and staff a refinery when production is driven to the limit isn't hard to believe.

If you wan to bitch about no new refineries in so many years, save your breath and punch a tree huggin hippy. It won't change a thing but I bet you'll feel better.

For over 30 years the oil companies have been begging for help in getting new refineries built. The environmentalist have blocked every chance we had of having lower oil prices by blocking Nuclear Power Plants to the point that if you wanted to build one it will take 40 years of environmental paper work and studies before the first piece of dirt can be moved in order to build the plant. It takes thirty years from the time they finish the law suits to stop them before they can start building a refinery. 20 years ago the oil companies said they needed new refineries in order to keep up with demand. The environmental groups said that we don’t need more refineries we need to conserve and not drive gas guzzling cars. 20 years have passed and just as they predicted we are not keeping up with demand. The refineries 20 years ago they were at 70% capacity, now they are at 95% capacity. This means that when they shut down a section of the refinery for maintenance there is no refinery in the nation that can pick up the slack which would keep prices stable so any problem with any refinery means higher gas prices.
I don’t understand why liberals get upset when the price of oil or petrol goes up. the environmentalist have been saying for 30 years that petrol should be $5.00 a gallon or higher in order to save the planet. It is what these people want and now we hear complaints because the oil companies are the ones making the money. Who did they think was going to make the money? My family used to own a gas station and by law the gas station is only allowed to make .03 cents per gallon, not profit but gross. .87 cents a gallon went to the government and by federal law the oil companies can only make .10 cents a gallon leaving the rest as the cost to buy the oil and refine the oil into gasoline, who makes the lions share of the profit? Investors that set the price of oil the next biggest winner is the government. Keep in mind that in order to buy the oil at higher prices is paid from the profits earned. That means that if the nuts get their way and tax the profits of oil companies where will the oil companies get the money to buy more oil?
Lets try to think ahead, we need new oil refineries just to keep up with current demand and new refineries to deal with future requirements. One way to bring the price of oil down is to build nuclear power plants which would mean the oil used to fuel power plants could be used to make more gasoline meaning lower prices. If we do this then under current laws in 50 years we can lower gas prices by three dollars the problem is by then the price of petrol will be about 30 dollars a gallon. The chance we had to bring down oil prices passed 20 years ago. Aren’t you people happy we listened to them back then? How much better the world is because we allowed nuts to block our growth potential?

“half of those supplies are controlled by opec”

That cost is in the crude oil price. The retail price of refined product is what the Oil Companies control by how much they refine of each product. They also control that by not investing in more refining capacity so they keep the supply low relative to demand. Oil in not Free enterprise. It is a closely controlled business of an essential commode and the oil companies with the concurrence of the federal government are allowed to screw the public and business. It is time we all insist we tax away the profit that is unreasonable and that results from their manipulation of the supply of refined product. They can impact Gas prices by just shifting more oil to fuel oil rather then gas. They can reverse that and drive up heating oil by refining more gas and creating a shortage of heating oil!

That cost is in the crude oil price. The retail price of refined product is what the Oil Companies control by how much they refine of each product. They also control that by not investing in more refining capacity so they keep the supply low relative to demand. Oil in not Free enterprise. It is a closely controlled business of an essential commode and the oil companies with the concurrence of the federal government are allowed to screw the public and business. It is time we all insist we tax away the profit that is unreasonable and that results from their manipulation of the supply of refined product. They can impact Gas prices by just shifting more oil to fuel oil rather then gas. They can reverse that and drive up heating oil by refining more gas and creating a shortage of heating oil!

Before you speew any more of this "ignorant" drivel, go read reply #17 and learn something.

They shut the refinery down in my hometown in the mid 80's. Why? Because the cost of upgrading to federal mandates exceeded the profits from selling oil. Were you begging the government to subsidize big oil to build refineries then?

becouse the liberals and the democrats want the 5.00 a gallion to be taxes not profits

Good point. After all, we raise the price of cigarettes artificially to ween society off of them. Is the problem that the price is prohibitive, or that the excess money isn't going into the pockets of socialist cronies?

this is not a liberal vs. conservative thing in the least. the discontent with the price of gas isn't a party matter as i see it. where blame is based might be more partissan, but not the price and the crunch on the wallet.

OMG. Who do you think will suffer because of this tax? Not "big oil", that's for sure.

The solution is, though. There's nothing "conservative" about imposed price ceilings and punitive taxation on profits. Conservatives who propose such are departing from their philosophy.

as far as i know, most conservatives i know support a competitive industry. i'm sorry, i don't think big oil is. that changes the rules...even according to brad.

i would want it looked into deeper whether or not actual competition did exist in the oil industry. or, since (amongst other factors)the demand exceeds supply, have they become anti-competitive?

i want that clearly established before i start talking about imposing anything on anyone. and i don't expect to find a memo from one ceo to every other one explaining how they will work together to gouge the american consumer or anything stupidly overly simplistic like that.

maybe we should start in getting those dick cheney energy policy meetings unsealed.

Sean, the majority of environmentalist nut jobs are supporting the democrat party because the party gives them a voice in trade for votes to keep them in power. To keep getting the votes they need to enact legislation that makes the nut jobs happy. I am not saying that the party believes their trash or stupid ideas but they have to pay lip service to them and part of that lib service were the laws passed in the 70’s that restricted nuclear power plants, and 52 varieties of summer fuels and the ten varieties of winter fuels that the refineries have to shut down to reformulate each year. With less and less refining capacity each year because of demand there is less room to manufacture both types at the same time so we will have shortages which raise the price for no other reason than lack of supply.
So it is a party thing to a point. I know the republicans created the EPA and all but that was to clean up the land that the manufacturers polluted but could not pay to clean up because by the time we learned that the stuff was a danger most of the companies were out of business for years.


Col. Gene,
A tax on the profits is a stupid idea, I know for a fact that it is stupid because the liberals tried it before and failed. Here is what happened. During the oil embargo of the 70’s oil companies were making record profits. Not because they were over charging for their product but because the oil purchased prior to the price going up was sold at the new higher price giving them a huge profit for that year. The liberals not knowing anything about supply and demand or how to run a profitable business, said that it was unfair that the oil companies should make so much money while the poor were suffering at the gas pumps. So they came up with a “windfall profits tax” to punish Big Oil. This worked for almost 20 minutes. Being a company that makes a profit they passed on the tax to the consumer causing the minor blip in the price of oil to become permanent base price. In short the liberals have caused the price of gas to go up by the amount of the tax used to punish Big Oil. Gas went to two dollars a gallon and then dropped when they had supplies but went up again. Since the Liberals never removed the tax we now have a base price of a dollar eighty a gallon to which the liberals want to attach another tax, Great move! Get rid of the taxes and we could have gas down to a dollar and change again. That does not include the eighty-seven cent federal taxes that is included in the price of gas already.

In a free market economy the term 'gouge' is kind of problematic. Now, granted, with medicines, gas, etc., people need the product. If you want to talk about a "competitive" industry, then you have to look at what prevents the industry from being competitive.

There is obviously a demand for cheaper gas. I think it is obvious to about anyone who looks that gas could be sold cheaper, one way or another. So, why isn't someone stepping in and making themselves rich by undercutting the big oil companies and steering all that demand their way? After all, a demand for "cheap gas" is an unfulfilled demand.

I think if you look into it, you'll find, again, that it is the government. That isn't conservative, again. That's the government sticking its nose in the free market. The government controls almost every aspect of the oil industry in one way or another, which leaves the situation perfect for the oil industry and the government to conspire to fix prices.

What you and others seem to be suggesting is for us to negotiate with a dishonest system in order to gain lower prices. Or worse, we could keep the prices, tax the hell out of one side of the equation, send the result to the other side, who will simply then pass it back to their cohorts. In the meantime, you and I will pay for the tax in higher prices.

So, the conservative stance is not and will never be to control prices or impose taxes. The conservative stance would be to root out what controls and relationships the industry has with the government, and cut whatever ties cause entrepreneurs from stepping in and offering a cheaper product. Any time you see conservatives asking for more government control of something, they've overlooked the obvious and betrayed their economic philosophy.

P.S. For a more obvious example, just look at the Big Pharma. There is another situation where an industry has finagled their relationship with the government to the point that the industry is uncompetitive and punitive to the consumer. Look at what they have done with patents, etc.

That doesn't come from government inaction, that comes from government overaction. The oil industry is a different branch of the same problem.

but fines and some other punitive actions would be acceptable if anti trust laws, et al, were broken. you can call it a tax if you want to make it "anti conservative" but conservatism doesn't object to fines on businesses that break laws.

that hasn't been proven, of course. that is why i haven't suggested anything actually being imposed without due process. again, let's start with unmasking this industry, their potential collusion with govt. and each other.

i have a feeling the "alternative fuel" buzz might heat up some more if more see how these guys do business and who works with who, behind the curtain...even if it's not criminally provable in the end.