Reply By: danielostPosted: Thursday, December 06, 2007 Highlights of energy legislation in the House._ Car Mileage: Requires automakers to increase the fuel economy of cars and small trucks, including SUVs, by 40 percent to an industry average of 35 miles per gallon by 2020._ Renewable motor fuels: Requires a sevenfold increase in the use of ethanol as a motor fuel to 36 billion gallons a year by 2022, with two-thirds to be cellulose ethanol from such feedstock as prairie grass and wood chips. Has tax incentives for renewable fuels plants._ Taxes: Includes a $21 billion tax package, including a rollback of $13.5 billion in tax breaks for the five largest oil companies. The revenue is to be used for tax incentives to promote renewable fuels and energy efficiency._ Electricity: Requires electric utilities to produce 15 percent of their power from renewable energy such as wind, solar or biomass. Some of the mandate could be satisfied by utilities promoting efficiency or buying renewable energy credits._ Energy efficiency: Requires increased energy efficient appliances and improvements in energy efficiency of federal and commercial buildings. Also requires faster approval of federal energy efficiency standards._ Hybrid cars: Creates tax incentives to develop plug-in hybrid electric cars and establishes tax credits for buying the vehicles. these all sound nice. none of them fix the problem.

That is a LIE!!! ALL OF THESE WILL HELP. THE HIGHER MILEAGE WILL BE A VERY BIG HELP. ALL BUSH AND THE GOP WANT TO DO IS STAND IN THE DOOR AND PREVENT ANY ACTION. THERTE IS NOTHGING TO SAY THAT OTHER MEASURE CAN NOT BE ADDED BUT TO PREVENT ACTION IS WHAT IS WRONG WITH THE GOP AND BUSH!

Reply By: terpfan1980Posted: Thursday, December 06, 2007And here's the flub referred to above:Time to get ride of the GOP in November 2008!

THEY ARE PREVENTING ACTION ON THAT AND OTHER ISSUES THAT AMERICANS WANT CHANGED. IF THEY WILL NOT COOPERATE, THEN THEY MUST BE RELIGATED TO A PLACE WHERE THEY CAN NO LONGER STOP THE CHANGE!

will help the politician look like he cares.

Reply By: DaiwaPosted: Thursday, December 06, 2007Once again, our Founders designed a system to prevent rabid fools like you from imposing simple majority rule on the other 49%. Thank God they did. The system works as intended & you bitch & moan, despite that system being embodied in that Constitution you claim to cherish & bleat on about all the time.

THE PROBLEM IS THAT BUSH AND THE GOP ARE USING THIS SYSTEM TO STOP CHANGES FROM PASSING THAT WOULD HELP AMERICANS. THERE IS NO VALID REASON TO STOP THIS ENERGY BILL FROM BECOMMING LAW!

Reply By: danielostPosted: Friday, December 07, 2007 ALL OF THESE WILL HELP will help the politician look like he cares.

[B]Who cares? Anyone that buys gas or uses energy. YOU ARE AN IDIOT!

Wow, proof positive you don't give one rat's butt about the poor, Col!

As I already detailed, the TRUTH is that this bill would have raised taxes on gasoline, natural gas and oil, meaning that the POOR would bear the brunt of the burden. The poor that you claim to care about would receive all of the burden and none of the benefits of this bill, since the cars that the poor drive are essentially castoffs from the wealthy of this country (we buy our cars USED, meaning a change within 5 years wouldn't trickle down to the poor for 10-15 years).

I hesitate to even call you a liberal, as it taints the name of many good liberals I've known over the years. You spew your filth with absolutely no regard for the people who would suffer if policies like yours were implemented. You eschew democracy (you have flat out stated that election results should be nullified because they represent the views of less than 50% of the electorate; the only alternative, obviously, would be someone who is installed by an unDemocratic process), and you hate the poor and the middle classes with a passion.

You claim authority, Gene. WHAT authority? For crying out loud, your opinion is so marginal, YOU COULDN'T EVEN GET A PUBLISHER TO PAY FOR YOUR BOOKS; you had to publish via vanity press. You expect us to believe that a hack who can't even get marginal support from the Democratic Party has his finger on the pulse of the nation?

Oh, you're right, Gene. I should let my family die in squalor rather than actually heat our home or drive to work!

And tell me, do you bicycle everywhere you go? And I mean EVERYWHERE? If not, you are the idiot you claim us to be!

Reply By: Gideon MacLeishPosted: Friday, December 07, 2007Wow, proof positive you don't give one rat's butt about the poor, Col!As I already detailed, the TRUTH is that this bill would have raised taxes on gasoline, natural gas and oil, meaning that the POOR would bear the brunt of the burden. The poor that you claim to care about would receive all of the burden and none of the benefits of this bill, since the cars that the poor drive are essentially castoffs from the wealthy of this country (we buy our cars USED, meaning a change within 5 years wouldn't trickle down to the poor for 10-15 years).

Just HOW will the poor be worse off? They are already suffering from a lack of a policy that would move us to lower prices. 1/2 the oil is used in cars. The increased mileage is essential.

The renewable fuels increase supplies we make in the U.S. That would both lower prices and increases supply and reduce our purchases of foreign oil.

The Rollback of tax credits to oil companies will be invested in new energy sources which again increases SUPPLY and will lower prices and reduce our purchase of foreign oil.

More efficient appliances again reduces energy Demand and thus cost.

Hybrid cars along with alternate energy production are what we need long term.

HOW in the HELL does this BILL not address the issue of BOTH increased supply of energy WE CONTROL and more effective use of the existing energy? You and people like you is why we have not solved the energy issue. All Bush does is tell us what we know and refuses to take action to solve the problem. THERE IS NO VALID reason to stop this bill from becoming law. Every person and company will continue to pay higher energy costs if we do not act. If you are so concerned about the poor, we should begin providing an energy credit in the form of a check to help them pay the higher energy costs until we solve this problem!

Simply your opinion. One I would disagree with.

Of course there is, it's already been shown to you. Maybe you should actually reading the bill instead of getting your talking points from left wing kook websites. This is nothing but another useless post trying to blame the GOP on energy prices.

There is nothing in this bill that will lower gas prices. Will you finally admit you are a hack for the democrats?




Who is this "we"? You aren't doing anything to solve the problem.  If you are so concerned why don't you hand over your paycheck to people?  Tell my why you don't do that gene?

Tax them more then graciously give them back the money? That's such a bass ackwards financing system as to be laughable and totally undermine the credibility of anything you have to say.

Again you conveniently avoid the issue that requiring stringent mileage standards will not help the poor, at least not until those new efficient cars reach the secondhand market. Most poor families can't afford to buy brand new vehicles.

And ANOTHER point, why is it that you and virtually every other "eco friendly" dem shill completely ignore industrial hemp as a viable solution to the energy crisis? I know of far more Americans in the hemp legalization movement than in any of the other solutions you provide.

and will increase food costs.

i know we are going to use feed corn.


but that means less feed corn for cows and other livestock.


meaning the feed for these animals will go up meaning the price of hamburger will go up. how many joes on here eat hamburger instead of steak because of the price.

and if you gave them the vehicles they couldn't afford the insurance and maintenance.

How does mandating more use of Ethonol (which costs more to produce, gets much worse mileage per gallon, and causes more wear and tear to engines) "help" our energy problems?

Just HOW will the poor be worse off? They are already suffering from a lack of a policy that would move us to lower prices. 1/2 the oil is used in cars.

My God Col, you are so stupid you can't see past your own nose. How can someone be as moronic as you? What's even scarier is that there are a whole bunch just like you in Congress. Here, I will give you a "so easy a 5 year old can understand it" response to your stupid question.

The increased mileage is essential.

This increase will only affect new vehicles, vehicles that will be even more expensive than they are now since they will be marketed as more gas efficient vehicles. So anyone buying a new car will get screwed with higher prices at the dealer, especially the dumb ones who don't know who to haggle prices. Then theres the poor people who buy used cars. These gas efficient cars will never reach their hands till maybe 5 to 10 years later so the true impact of what this increase in mileage can do will not even start till about 5 to 10 years later. Not to mention these used cars will still be expensive as well. And you claim to care about poor people? What are you gonna do, give them incentives to afford these used cars as well? You seem to think that throwing someone elses money at the problem is the solution to every problem.

The renewable fuels increase supplies we make in the U.S. That would both lower prices and increases supply and reduce our purchases of foreign oil.

Col, how can you lower something when it will take money to make these changes and guess who's gonna get stuck with the bill for these upgrades? In the long run it may lower prices but not before they charge people up the ying yang for it first.

The Rollback of tax credits to oil companies will be invested in new energy sources which again increases SUPPLY and will lower prices and reduce our purchase of foreign oil.

Again, it will not lower prices because they will raise prices to make up for the taxes they will have to pay. You seem to ignore the fact that it is the consumer that pays the price for any taxes added to any company. As usual you ignore the burden placed on the average citizen, especially those you claim to defend.

More efficient appliances again reduces energy Demand and thus cost.

For who? Who the hell is gonna pay extra for a machine that wasted less electricity? Just like every other product people don't pay more for something that is more efficient cause they are still gonna pay for the waste in the price. Again, you ignore the consumer.

Hybrid cars along with alternate energy production are what we need long term.

Yes, because they are so affordable. I guess your idea is to leave every person who normally buys a used car carless cause you want hybrids for everyone. Man, you can't half past a stupid idea can you. You talk about long term solutions but never thing of the long terms effects of these solutions.

For once in your life think of solutions that will benefit everyone not benefit some while hurting others. Jesus Christ man, get a clue. How the hell do you run a business while being this delusional?

Reply By: Island DogPosted: Friday, December 07, 2007 THERE IS NO VALID reason to stop this bill from becoming law. Every person and company will continue to pay higher energy costs if we do not act. Of course there is, it's already been shown to you. Maybe you should actually reading the bill instead of getting your talking points from left wing kook websites. This is nothing but another useless post trying to blame the GOP on energy prices. There is nothing in this bill that will lower gas prices. Will you finally admit you are a hack for the democrats?

The provisions in this bill will increase domestic energy production and cut our use with higher mileage and more efficient appliances. That is what needs to be done. It will not instantly lower gas prices but nothing will do that. It does address the issues of becoming more independent for the energy we use. There may be other steps but this bill is a solid change that will help our country!