TIME Outed Rove and Libby

on Aug 02, 2005

Col, you have been proved wrong again so you resort to the usual Bush bashing. It really doesn't matter what his past is, he is the President, elected and re-elected. There is nothing you are going to do that will change that fact. You totally ignore any good news and focus on what CNN and the NYT tells you. If anybody is ignorant it is you.

Will you admit you have been proved wrong on this thread col?

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OckhamsRazor

on Aug 02, 2005

136 posts on this between basically 3 people?

This is your friend.

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on Aug 02, 2005

Yes TRY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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on Aug 03, 2005

No Island Dog I have not been PROVEN WRONG. You Bush supporters assert what I say is wrong because it does not reflect well on Saint George. That does not make it WRONG. The issues I have raised are real and the results of the past 4.5 years , for the most part, come directly from the Federal Govt branches that deal with the varrious issues i.e. Treasury, Labor etc. As for the Bush background, do the resarch- Learn about his drug and booze problems, his college years ( branding people, his academic record and blowing up frogs with fire crackers), his business failures and where the money for thoes businesses came from, how he got in and out of the National Guard, How he was handed part ownershio in the Rangers, The fact that his "No Child Left Behind" program in Texas was a FRAUD! Bush came to office with almost no credable achievements! What he is a political person, that Karl Rove helped get elected first in Texas and than as President.

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on Aug 03, 2005

No Island Dog I have not been PROVEN WRONG

YES you have! More times than I care to count. And not just by me or dog, but by innumerable people on this site! And sorry to tell you this not everyone on this site likes GW. Which means you were proven wrong by people that do NOT support GW! Get over it already.

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on Aug 03, 2005

No Island Dog I have not been PROVEN WRONG. You Bush supporters assert what I say is wrong because it does not reflect well on Saint George. That does not make it WRONG.

Col enough of your dramatics. This whole non-story about Plame has absolutely nothing to do Bush. It barely involves Rove. You have already convicted Rove, and nothing anybody presents to you will matter. You hate Bush and Rove. So much that all logical thinking doesn't matter.

As for the Bush background, do the resarch- Learn about his drug and booze problems, his college years ( branding people, his academic record and blowing up frogs with fire crackers), his business failures and where the money for thoes businesses came from, how he got in and out of the National Guard, How he was handed part ownershio in the Rangers, The fact that his "No Child Left Behind" program in Texas was a FRAUD! Bush came to office with almost no credable achievements! What he is a political person, that Karl Rove helped get elected first in Texas and than as President.

This has to be one of the most pathetic posts you have ever made. You have been proved wrong on this whole Plame story and you now go back to blaming and bashing Bush about anything and everything. You are pathetic. Like I said col, Bush was elected and re-elected, and would be again today.

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on Aug 03, 2005

I have sighted the TIME article which has NOT BEEN PROVEN INCORRECT! Reread the Blog " TIME OUTED ROVE AND LIBBY" and the TIME Articles-- It was the major story for that issue!

When you claim I am wrong what you are saying is that you do not believe my sources like the Treasury, OBM, Dept of Labor. They ar NOT wrong they publish facts as they are which do not reflect well on Bush. For example, the Treasury shows we had a balanced budget in 2000 and last year without the $200 Billion surplus from Social Security and Medicare we had about $600 billion annual deficit- You can also see the change in the national debt from 2003 to 2004. At the end of 2000 our national debt was $5.7 Trillion and today it is just short of $8 Trillion.

As to his background, it is ALL true and if you take the time to research his past, you will find just what I did about his lack of accomplishments!

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on Aug 04, 2005

“Top Cheney Aide Among Sources in C.I.A. Story” is the headline the Associated Press chose for its article on now-famous journalist Matthew Cooper’s first-hand account of his testimony before the grand jury investing the leak of Valerie Plame’s identity.

But the real story is that Karl Rove has been further vindicated.

Though the ultimate arbiter of any legal issues will be special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald and the aforementioned grand jury, the political case against Bush’s right-hand man is quickly crumbling. Cooper’s story—on Time’s new cover—confirms that Rove was not “shopping” for an outlet to “out” Plame, but that he was merely warning Cooper not to “get too far out on Wilson.”

Much of what was in the account was covered in Mike Isikoff’s Newsweek scoop on the contents of the e-mail Cooper wrote to his editor almost immediately after his 2-minute phone conversation with Rove. From the Newsweek article, it was established that Cooper called Rove—not the other way around—and that it was the Time reporter, not the supposed evil genius, who brought up the topic of Joe Wilson.

Perhaps the most significant “news” item in Cooper’s piece is that he also counted Vice-President Dick Cheney’s chief of staff, Lewis “Scooter” Libby, as a “source” on Plame—which explains the AP’s headline selection.

But rather than implicating Libby, Cooper’s article is yet more evidence that there was no “story shopping” by the White House. Here’s what Cooper wrote:

In August 2004, I gave limited testimony about my conversations with Scooter Libby. Libby had also given me a specific waiver, and I gave a deposition in the office of my attorney. I have never discussed that conversation until now. In that testimony, I recounted an on-the-record conversation with Libby that moved to background. On the record, he denied that Cheney knew about or played any role in the Wilson trip to Niger. On background, I asked Libby if he had heard anything about Wilson's wife sending her husband to Niger. Libby replied, "Yeah, I've heard that too," or words to that effect. Like Rove, Libby never used Valerie Plame's name or indicated that her status was covert, and he never told me that he had heard about Plame from other reporters, as some press accounts have indicated.

No matter what the AP headline—or others—may suggest, Libby appears to have been a “source” only in the loosest possible sense. Not only was it Cooper who initiated the call, but Libby merely told the reporter that he had “heard that too.” It would seem nothing more than an off-handed response to Cooper’s question, and the Cheney aide too, did not appear to know Plame’s name or covert status.

The other significant “news” item in the Time cover story was what Cooper wrote regarding what Rove told him at the end of the very brief conversation:

Although it’s not reflected in my notes or subsequent e-mails, I have a distinct memory of Rove ending the call by saying, “I’ve already said too much.” This could have meant he was worried about being indiscreet, or it could have meant he was late for a meeting or something else. I don't know, but that sign-off has been in my memory for two years.

Could it mean something? Possibly. Cooper seems to have spent two years pondering just that. Leftist bloggers have already started doing so—albeit in a much more conspiratorial fashion. But in and of itself, Rove’s comment is cryptic, and, as Cooper noted, it could have meant any one of a number of things. In other words, there is no smoke, let alone a gun.

Though the Left has largely been dismissive of the distinction that Rove was not telling Cooper to write a story but rather to be careful so as not to publish an incorrect one, at least one key Clintonite disagrees. Former Clinton spokesman Mike McCurry recently wrote in the Huffington Post, “A two-minute call such as the one now reported is basically to get the signals straight -- green, yellow, red. Rove seems to have been telling Cooper that the yellowcake story was a flashing yellow and he needed to be cautious.”

As it turns out, Cooper did have reason to be cautious. Wilson’s credibity was later eviscerated by the bipartisan Senate Select Intelligence Committee. Not only did Wilson lie when claiming that his wife had nothing to do with him going to Niger, but his report back to the CIA was interpreted by analysts as being somewhat supportive of the Saddam-yellowcake intelligence.

None of this changes the legal questions. No one outside of Fitzgerald’s team and the grand jury know exactly what evidence the prosecutor has gathered. Not that that will stop the Left and their calls for “frog-marching” Rove to the penitentary. Yet as things stand, what is out in the public domain—which is to say quite a bit—indicates that no law was broken.

The latest “news” from Cooper only strengthens that likelihood.

As for Wilson's wife, I told the grand jury I was certain that Rove never used her name and that, indeed, I did not learn her name until the following week, when I either saw it in Robert Novak's column or Googled her, I can't recall which. Rove did, however, clearly indicate that she worked at the "agency"--by that,I told the grand jury, I inferred that he obviously meant the CIA and not, say, the Environmental Protection Agency. Rove added that she worked on "WMD" (the abbreviation for weapons of mass destruction) issues and that she was responsible for sending Wilson. This was the first time I had heard anything about Wilson's wife.

I have sighted the TIME article which has NOT BEEN PROVEN INCORRECT! Reread the Blog " TIME OUTED ROVE AND LIBBY" and the TIME Articles-- It was the major story for that issue!

Yes col you HAVE been proven wrong. And here ya go. reprints! And the "second" one is from TIME!

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on Aug 04, 2005

When you claim I am wrong what you are saying is that you do not believe my sources like the Treasury, OBM, Dept of Labor. They are NOT wrong. They publish facts as they are which do not reflect well on Bush

We claim you are wrong when WE pull entirely different information from the EXACT same sights your pulling from! No they do not publish wrong info. But you tend to pick and choose what info you use from them. And you ALWAYS choose info that makes GW look bad.

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on Aug 04, 2005

No Way-- Who called Who-- Motive for call--Length of call-- Use of her maden name mean NOTHING. The basic fact in the TIME article was NOT PROVEN WRONG- Cooper learned about Wilson's wife as a CIA Agent working on WMD for the FIRST TIME from Rove and it was CONFORMED by Lobby. That is the basic issue which is the identification of Wilson" s wife as a CIA Agent to the reporters.

There are also questions as to WHY Rove failed to tell the GJ about the Cooper call in his initial testimony. Also there are diffrences between his statements and the statements of other reporters. We also need to learn what Rove told Novak in their call on 6 July when Novak was perparing his article! You saying I was proven WRONG is a lie. Just like all the data I sighed from the Treasury, OMB, BLS. It is ALL TRUE and because it does not reflect well on Saint George, you reject it. That DOES NOT MAKE IT A LIE!!!

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on Aug 04, 2005

You are totally ignoring the fact that the same article you swear by is proving you wrong.

That DOES NOT MAKE IT A LIE!!!

What makes it a "lie" and "distored" is that you change the data to reflect your liberal views. You don't take in account anything but it's "Bush's fault".

Tax cuts caused the deficit - Col proved wrong.
Unemployment rates - Col proved wrong and showed how he distorts data
Claimed Bush was appointed - Proved wrong.

These are just a few I can think of. You are nothing but a liberal fraud who's only purpose is to bash Bush. You are pathetic.

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on Aug 04, 2005

First, the tax cuts were to give back the projected surplus that turned out NOT TO EXIST. If the treasury had collected the taxes at the old rates, before the tax cuts predicated on a Surplus that did not exist, the deficit would be much smaller. Thus, the tax cuts are a large part of the deficit along with the increased spending approved by Congress and which Bush allowed to become law since he refused to Veto spending for which we had no funding! Next January Bush and Congress approved spending between 50-60 Billion more for prescription Drugs from Medicare and there is NOT ONE CENT TO PAY FOR THAT NEW BENEFIT!

The Unemployment rate when Bush took office was 3.9%. They are 5.2 % today-- 5.2% is higher then 3.9% and the quality of many of the newely created jobs pay less then the jobs lost and have fewer benefits.

Thousands of Votes ( about 29,000) in Florida ( Duval County) were not counted because the Court stopped the re-count. That is surely not ELECTED when you do not count all the votes ( jsut so happened they were from a Democratic area of Florida)!

Cooper stated in Time and on CNN that he was told for the first time by Rove Mrs Wilson was a CIA Agent working on WMD. That means Rove outed Mrs Plame to the press. Why was the President's Political advisor talking to the press about classified information concerning our CIA a Agents?

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on Aug 05, 2005

Col, you said many months ago that the tax cuts caused the deficit. Brad showed you wrong and showed how you distorted the data. No matter what you say now doesn't change that.

The Unemployment rate when Bush took office was 3.9%. They are 5.2 % today-- 5.2% is higher then 3.9% and the quality of many of the newely created jobs pay less then the jobs lost and have fewer benefits.

Col, it has already been shown how you manipulated this number. Wrong again.

Thousands of Votes ( about 29,000) in Florida ( Duval County) were not counted because the Court stopped the re-count. That is surely not ELECTED when you do not count all the votes ( jsut so happened they were from a Democratic area of Florida)!

This proves that you are nothing but a wacky liberal. Every recount after the election showed Bush would have won Florida. Bush was elected col, if you can't understand that basic fact, then you are just lost.

Cooper stated in Time and on CNN that he was told for the first time by Rove Mrs Wilson was a CIA Agent working on WMD. That means Rove outed Mrs Plame to the press.

How many times does someone have to show you the quotes from Cooper that shows different?

Why was the President's Political advisor talking to the press about classified information concerning our CIA a Agents?

Maybe for the same reason this supposed "agent" was writing articles about herself and her husband. Rove was doing his job, exposing a fraud like Wilson.

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on Aug 05, 2005

Island Dog

What I said in my earlier Blogs is that the tax cuts were responsible for about 270 Billion of the deficit. I NEVER said the entire deficit was caused by trhe tax cuts. However, we would be a lot closer to a balanced budget ( about 50% of the way) if we had not cut the Federal revenue with tax cuts . When it became clear there was NO SURPLUS as Bush claimed, the tax cuts should have ended. That is what Greenspan and O'Neil told Bush should happem when the tax cut legislation began in 2001. Thus I am NOT wrong it is YOU that are WRONG AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!

Let me quote from page 40 of the July 25, 2005 issue of TIME: "Rove clearly indicated the she (Wilson"s Wife) worked at the agency - by that, I told the GJ, I inferred that he obviously ment the CIA and not, the Environmental Protection Agency. Rove added that she worked on WMD (the abbreviation for weapons of mass destruction) issues and that she was responsible for sending Wilson. That was the first time I had heard anything about Wilson's wife."... " Was it through my conversation with Rove that I learned for the first time that Wilson's wife worked at the CIA and may have been responsible for sending him? YES. Did Rove say that she worked at the CIA on WMD? YES."

Clearly, Rove outed Wilson's wife as a CIA Agent who worked on WMD to Cooper.

The reason you give for Rove telling the press about our CIA Agent is NUTS. He was the Political advisor and had NO BUSINESS telling classified information about the CIA to a reporter!!!

Rove should be have his security clearence revoked and sent packing.

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