The U S is creating Saddam II in Iraq

Published on November 29, 2005 By COL Gene In Politics

There have been reports of hundreds of Sunni civilian killings largely by the new Shiite Iraqi security services over the last several weeks. Today the New York Times and has an article that confirms this is taking place by the security forces that we have trained and put into place.

The very same types of killings and abductions are taking placed today as took place under Saddam Hussein. The only difference is that it is now the Shiite forces are killing the Sunni population. This is taking place while we have over 150,000 military in Iraq. Just think what will happen after we complete our training of the Iraqi police and army and leave Iraq.

We are creating very same evil as we deposed by invading Iraq. It is even more sad to realize that our actions in Iraq have cost over 2,100 American lives, 35,000 injuries and $ 300 billion dollars. The Bush policy in Iraq is dead wrong.

Comments (Page 1)

singrdave

on Nov 29, 2005

Awesome. The title along with its author made it impossible to turn away.

Link

Since COL Curmudgeon didn't provide the link or any text, I will oblige.

Hundreds of accounts of killings and abductions have emerged in recent weeks, most of them brought forward by Sunni civilians, who claim that their relatives have been taken away by Iraqi men in uniform without warrant or explanation.

Some Sunni men have been found dead in ditches and fields, with bullet holes in their temples, acid burns on their skin, and holes in their bodies apparently made by electric drills. Many have simply vanished.

At first glance, you'd say, "My goodness! Those Shiites are getting uppity!" But remember these are allegations. Not evidence, allegations. To be borne out in an investigation.

And also remember that the Sunnis are the recently-displaced ruling party in Iraq with a millennium-old grudge against the Shi'a.

Some of the young men have turned up alive in prison. In a secret bunker discovered earlier this month in an Interior Ministry building in Baghdad, American and Iraqi officials acknowledged that some of the mostly Sunni inmates appeared to have been tortured.

Some, not all, and can we get names, life stories, background information? To paraphrase "The Princess Bride", some are innocent means most are guilty. And torture is such a relative term.

Today the New York Times and has an article that confirms this is taking place

The Times article does lend credence to the accusations by the sheer page space. But at no time does the article state that evidence has been uncovered.

Remember it's not the proof that counts, only the weight of the allegations!

bakerstreet

on Nov 29, 2005

If the Col had seen his family members disappear, his neighbors have their limbs amputated or shoved off buildings over and over until they die, I wonder if he'd have a difficult time understanding a bit of backlash against the people who carried out those acts?

These people are living alongside people that abused them for 40 years. I think it is a fairly unreasonable expectation to think there aren't going to be reprisals.

COL Gene

on Nov 29, 2005

American officials have confirmed this and the dead bodies are proof the killing is taking place. Killing, torture is taking place while we are in Iraq with over 150,000 troops. All the Saddam killings are "just allegations" as you put it!

COL Gene

on Nov 29, 2005

American officials, who are overseeing the training of the Iraqi Army and the police, acknowledge that police officers and Iraqi soldiers, and the militias with which they are associated, may indeed be carrying out killings and abductions in Sunni communities, without direct American knowledge.

Bakerstreet

My point if this is taking place with a small force that we have trained (more to come) while we are in Iraq with over 150,000 troops, what do you think will happen when we leave? We will have left just what we destroyed with a different name.

bakerstreet

on Nov 29, 2005

Killing and torture takes place in America with millions of policemen. The South after the civil war was as well occupied, and suffered much worse in terms of reprisals on both sides. Oddly, it didn't become a demilitarized wasteland.

Reprisals are to be expected after decades of oppression and torture. You need to look to your logic, col. You see a problem, and then follow your bias back to Bush. If we had ten million troops in Iraq there'd still be no way to prevent people from killing one another.

COL Gene

on Nov 29, 2005

Bakerstreet

Logic has NOTHING to do with this. This is just the same process in Iraq that Saddam used and WE have put it into place. No matter how plain the truth is somehow the supporters of Bush will SPIN it into something else by trying to change the subject. There is NO way to spin this-- It is dead wrong and aginst everything Bush said he was trying to accomplish in Iraq. His policy is and will be a disaster!

Lee1776

on Nov 29, 2005

Are you sure that those conducting the killings and abductions where police officers and Iraqi soldiers? If I was the leader of the insurgency, one tactic that I would employ would be suiting up a few of my guys and murder some Sunni Collaborators willing to run for office. The VC used this tactic during the Vietnam war very effectively.

If the new Iraqi Government was going to murder people, I would think they would be smart enough to not wear uniforms.

Here are some examples of insurgents using scare tactics to keep the Sunni's population in line:

"On 19 July, and in the middle of a busy Baghdad street in heavy traffic, the resistance shot dead 3 Sunni collaborators who had been taking part in the US-staged charade of writing a new constitution, as they left a Baghdad restaurant. On the same day, a collaborator judge was gunned down in Nasiriyah. Such attacks by the resistance, designed to eliminate collaborators, and as a warning to others not to go down the road of treachery against the Iraqi people, appear to be succeeding, for following these attacks, moderate Sunni leaders announced that they were suspending their efforts to help draft the new constitution."

Link

Senior Sunni Leader Killed in Iraq

Khadim Sarhid al-Hemaiyem was the leader of the Sunni Batta tribe and the brother of a parliamentary candidate in the Dec. 15 election, the official, Maj. Falah al-Mohammedawi said.

Some Sunni-led insurgent groups have declared a boycott of the election and have threatened politicians who choose to participate in it.

Link

But of course the far left refuses to admit that hyping these staged attacks just as the insurgents want, is helping the insurgent’s cause.

singrdave

on Nov 29, 2005

Remember it's not the proof that counts, only the weight of the allegations!

Logic has NOTHING to do with this.

You couldn't have said it better yourself, COL Curmudgeon.

Does it matter to COL Johnny One Note if anything is uncovered concerning these allegations? Nope. In fact, all the better. Gonna keep on believing. "Stay the course", if you will. No evidence of this activity means the Times, COL Gene, NPR, and webpages called "Iraqi Imperialist Occupation" (see Lee's first link) can blather on all they want without any basis in fact or reality.

They're just operating off the basic premise: it's all Bush's fault.

DJBandit

on Nov 29, 2005

Logic has NOTHING to do with this.

You have definitely lost your mind buddy, one too many push-ups burned to many brain cells. Logic is everything, being a military person you should know this. Everything has to have a logic to it to make sense. Otherwise we get religion.

Give it up Col gene, unless Iraq ends up being what it was before, at least a year after we're gone, then you can claim it didn't work. But just because some Shiites are taking advantage of the situation to settle some scores doesn't mean the entire country is in turmoil. This was expected, even you should have seen it coming. FOR CRYING OUT LOUD WE ARE NOT JUST PUTTING UP BK's AND KFC's IN IRAQ, WE ARE CHANGING THE ENTIRE LIFESTYLE OF A COUNTRY WHO HAS SEEN NOTHING BUT DEATH AND DESTRUCTION FOR MANY DECADES TO A BETTER LIFE (at least we hope it is, nothing is certain).

There..., I let it all out. Not that anything can get thru COL Gene's thick army helmet. You know what's most funny about you COL, there are people who have a similar point of view as you do and yet I hardly see any of them agree with you on your articles, gotta wonder why?

drmiler

on Nov 29, 2005

All the Saddam killings are "just allegations" as you put it!

WRONG!!!!! Once you have proof of a thing (and we DO have proof) it's no longer and "allegation"

COL Gene

on Nov 29, 2005

Lets let time prove who was correct. If you look at the book I wrote two years ago about what it would mean to keep Bush in The White House, you will see MOST of what I said would happen has already taken place. I will be happy to go back over what I predicted would be the impact of the Bush policies on our country.

Here are just a few:

We will continue to lose living wage jobs.

The National Debt will be about $8 Trillion in Jan 2009

The trade deficit will be equal to or worse then today.

The interest on the debt will be one of the fasrest growing sections of the Federal Budget and moving toward $500 Billion per year.

We will be no closer to solving the funding issues of Social Security and both Medicare and Medicaid will be greater financial trouble.

The government in Iraq will not be one that we will be able to work with to control terrorism.

Middle and lower income Americans will be worse off then today .

The political climate will be just as bad or worse.

We will have made very little if any progress in protecting our borders.

The walthy well be the ONLY economic group that will be btter off then today.

Keep this list and lets see how things look in January 2009

drmiler

on Nov 29, 2005

And just what the hell do these have to do with creating another Saddam?

COL Gene

on Nov 29, 2005

Since you continue to tell me I am wrong, I just thought I would establish what I have said Bush will do to the major issues that face our country. Time will prove me right or wrong.

singrdave

on Nov 29, 2005

If you look at the book I wrote two years ago

You wrote a book?

I'm sorry I didn't know already. Oh my goodness, I would love to read that book.

Since you continue to tell me I am wrong, I just thought I would establish what I have said Bush will do to the major issues that face our country. Time will prove me right or wrong.

You have many points that may or may not bear out over time. Time will tell, it is true. But in the meantime, what do we have to look forward to from you? More venomous screeds that fly fearlessly in the face of reality? More >nyah, nyah... I can't hear you!< when we try to explain to you the fallacies of your arguments?

COL Gene

on Nov 29, 2005

My Book is "Four More For George W?"

Welcome Guest! Please take the time to register with us.
There are many great features available to you once you register, including:

Richer content, access to many features that are disabled for guests like commenting on the forums.
Access to a great community, with a massive database of many, many areas of interest.
Access to contests & subscription offers like exclusive emails.
It's simple, and FREE!