Bush Brought the War on Terroirism to Iraq

Published on December 14, 2005 By COL Gene In Politics

The terrorists that are associated with 9/11 began to operate in Iraq only AFTER Bush removed Saddam Hussein and disbanded the Iraqi military. That allowed internal and external forces to create the terrorism that rips the country daily and has resulted in 30,000 dead Iraqis and 2,150 American military deaths.

There is NO assurance that the government that emerges in Iraq after we have departed will be one that will prevent terrorists groups from operating or that we will be able to deal with in the future. If terrorist groups can operate with 150,000 U S Troops and 200,000 Iraq military present, what makes anyone believe the terrorism will end after we leave.

Iraq has only been maintained as a single country by force since its creation. First it was the power of the British and then Saddam Hussein. The three factions hate each other and it is doubtful the new government will be able to maintain stability.

The Key is NOT the elections but what type of government emerges!

Comments (Page 1)

Island Dog

on Dec 14, 2005

The terrorists that are associated with 9/11 began to operate in Iraq only AFTER Bush removed Saddam Hussein and disbanded the Iraqi military.

Wrong col. Al-zaqwari was in Iraq before the invasion. He fled there after he was injured in Afghanistan.

There is NO assurance that the government that emerges in Iraq after we have departed will be one that will prevent terrorists groups from operating or that we will be able to deal with in the future. If terrorist groups can operate with 150,000 U S Troops and 200,000 Iraq military present, what makes anyone believe the terrorism will end after we leave.

You mean you hope that the government doesn't emerge in Iraq.

Col, this is about the third post you have made on this exact same topic. You just constantly repeat yourself to the point where nobody really cares what you say.

COL Gene

on Dec 14, 2005

That is not want the CIA said. There were NO terrorists operating in Iraq prior to the invasion. Bush allowed the War on Terrorism to expand into Iraq. All we hear is that this war will help us in the Moslem world. Time will answer that question. Why do 70% of the people in Iraq want us to leave if we are helping their country? What you mean is YOU do not care. The only thing that will mean a dam will be the type of government that develops. We could be worse off than with Saddam if we get another Iran!

drmiler

on Dec 14, 2005

Why do 70% of the people in Iraq want us to leave if we are helping their country?

This is an outright "false" statement! Can you show "any" proof? Or is this just your opinion as per usual?

stutefish

on Dec 14, 2005

So Gene's big objection now is that the plan is risky, and might not work?

Doesn't seem any worse than the old plan of "let Saddam Hussein remain in power, lift the sanctions, and see what happens".

Part of the reason terrorism hasn't left Iraq yet is because the country has been in a chaotic transition period. As these elections build the confidence of the public, and as the Iraqi security forces continue their training and their real-world experience, and as the opportunity to influence events in Iraq through violence against civilians passes, terrorism will leave Iraq as well.

Another part of the reason has to do with the idea of influencing events through terrorism. One of the main reasons terrorism came to Iraq in the first place was because it was in a chaotic transition period. This was an ideal time for terrorists to do everything in their power to disrupt the progress of the Iraqi people from an oppressed people to free citizens in a democratic regime. So naturally, the fighting has been very intense. The fighting will continue to be intense until it is clear that no amount of suicide bombing will deter the Iraqi people and the coalition forces from establishing a democratic regime in Iraq.

As long as Gene and others continue to preach that some amount of terrorism will lead to victory for the terrorists, the terrorists will continue to believe that public opinion is on their side, and that their attacks will ultimately succeed.

Terrorists weren't "operating" in Iraq because it was under the rule of a despotic madman. Terrorists don't operate in the U.S. because the U.S. is a democratic regime. Terrorists operate in Iraq right now because it is in the middle of the transition from one to the other. The terrorists want to stop this transition by killing people in horrible ways until they give up.

That aside, we do know that Abu Nidal and other major terrorist figures, including top Al Qaeda members, were in contact with officials in Hussein's regime, and that several of them were living in Iraq--in Bagdhad, even--or had lived there at some point during the years immediately prior to the 9/11 attacks.

We also have good evidence that there was at least one Al Qaeda training camp in Iraq.

Given the CIA's track record lately, and the well-known ideological and policy disagreements and feuding between the CIA and the Bush Adminstration, I'm not sure they're the most reliable source of information anyway.

Gene's argument here assumes that only the Bush Administration might spin anything; the CIA, the Democratic leadership, and the media are all straight-shooters who would never try to mislead us for their own ideological purposes.

COL Gene

on Dec 14, 2005

That story has been all over the news CNN, MSNBC. You are saying all these stories are not true?

COL Gene

on Dec 14, 2005

The old plan did not cost 2,150 American lives, 35,000 injured and $300 Billion Dollars. You admit that Terrorists were not operating in Iraq because of a despotic Dictator. I have said that time after time. Thus, Bush brought the War on Terrorism to Iraq and the transition to WHAT is the key question.

It was not just the CIA that presented Intel that refuterd the Bush/Cheney arguments. It was also Dept of Energy and DIA. Bush ignored any intel that did not support what he wanted to do from the start of his administration in Jan 2001 ( first Cabinet meeting) long before 9/11.

DJBandit

on Dec 14, 2005

Why do 70% of the people in Iraq want us to leave if we are helping their country?

Because they are fearful for their lives, not from the US forces but from those insurgents who attack the US forces. It is not that they don't like us anymore, they are just afraid for their lives and that can be understood. It seems that this is the way for them to tell us that they wish to do it themselves. You are confusing hate for Americans with fear for their lives.

An unofficial poll of people in Baghdad finds that all would like U.S.-led troops to stay on their bases rather than patrol the streets.

From Now that they voted, Iraqis want U.S. out, Washingtontimes.com

See what I mean? It's not so much hate for us but fear of the insurgents.

And a surprising number want the troops to leave right now, following the Jan. 30 election for a new 275-member national assembly.

From Now that they voted, Iraqis want U.S. out, Washingtontimes.com

For the exact same reason and I can't blame them for it. They are finally realizing that they don't want to die at the hands of these insurgents and so they feel that us leaving might solve the problem.

You however believe it will only make things worse. So what is your response to these people who believe that our departure will make them feel safer?

Time will answer that question.

You said that right, but at the same time you already seem to have the answer to that question and refuse to let time tell. Somehow you believe that every plan ever made has always had good results and that Bush is the only person in the world who's ideas have failed.

To me, this article has actually brought out the truth in you. I can now see what brings all this anger. The reality here seems that your hatred towards Bush is actually a hatred towards the Muslim world.

That statement there proves that you have no faith in the Muslim world. You do not believe they are capable of creating a stable Govt. You do not believe they are capable of creating a free Iraq with fair laws. You do not believe they can better themselves, yet you would rather have them become terrible countries with horrible dictators, cruel laws, starving children, abused citizens, terrorist training camps and more.

The three factions hate each other and it is doubtful the new government will be able to maintain stability.

Do you not believe that something should be done to help them at the least get alone? They don't have to like each other, just learn to live together, after all they all deserve to live there, it is all their country after all. It maybe doubtful but not impossible and to walk away now would only make it inevitable.

There were NO terrorists operating in Iraq prior to the invasion.

Marines Discover Terror Training Camp Near Baghdad

LinkLink

Salman Pak - Iraq's Own Terrorist Training Camp

LinkLink

Al-Qaida running new terror camp, say Kurds

Link

Link

I can always find more if you wish, although you don't seem to like links that much. This is how it's done my friend.

What you mean is YOU do not care.

If there is someone here who doesn't care it is you.

COL Gene

on Dec 14, 2005

I did not say the Iraqi people hate us but that they want us to leave. The radical Moslems will alwars hate the west. Many Moslems oppose the US because we are in their part of the world. They also hate our support for Israel. So long as our policy is to retain power in the middle east and support Israel, we will not be trusted by most Moslems. Jordon is the only country in that area that I believe comes close to a friend.

Our actions in Iraq has given the radical elements a tool with which to convert some of the moderate Moslems to their cause. We have created more enemies then friends by our invasion. The problems among the three main factions in Iraq will make it very hard to establish a working government no matter how long we stay. Many Moslems do not want a western style democracy and I believe there is a better chance a government closer to Iran than a democracy will result in Iraq.

If that is the bottom line, we have made a error. Another Iran will be worse then a Saddam for us.

Lee1776

on Dec 14, 2005

Hay Gene, take a look at this article in the Tehran Times news:Link

Iraqi Shiites protest against Al Jazeera Read through and notice the reason for the protest.

Around 5,000 Shi'ites gathered in Sadr City in east Baghdad, held pictures aloft of revered Shiite clerics and chanted anti-Jazeera slogans. Some unfurled a banner reading "Al Jazeera -- channel of terrorists".

The protestors are defending the Iraqi Shiite Cleric leadership decision that politics and religion is to be held separate. This is a Fattwa from Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani. Read more of him below:

Under the belief that politics and religion should not mix, he has been openly grateful that the United States toppled Saddam Hussein, and believes Iraq should be a democracy, provided there are direct elections, which would favor the Shiite majority. Link

There is a very bad misconception from the left, that the Shiite leadership in Iraq is wanting an Iranian style of Government.

COL Gene

on Dec 15, 2005

The issue is that there are factions in Iraq that will go to ANY length to get what they want. Some want a secular government while others want a Iran style government. There are some that are greatful we removed Saddam and others that are not. That does not alter the fact that TODAY, the vast majority in Iraq want us to go home!

That is JUST WHAT WE SHOULD DO!!!!!

Island Dog

on Dec 15, 2005

That is JUST WHAT WE SHOULD DO!!!!!

I'm glad you finally agree with al-zawahari. You never would answer the question, but you finally have. Thanks for supporting the terrorists and wanting to surrender col.

Oh col, this is from the same "poll" you like to quote.

"Despite the daily violence there, most living conditions are rated positively, seven in 10 Iraqis say their own lives are going well, and nearly two-thirds expect things to improve in the year ahead."

The radical Moslems will alwars hate the west. Many Moslems oppose the US because we are in their part of the world. They also hate our support for Israel. So long as our policy is to retain power in the middle east and support Israel, we will not be trusted by most Moslems. Jordon is the only country in that area that I believe comes close to a friend.

Col until islam is completely wiped off the planet they will always hate us. Appeasing them like you want to do does not work. It's been tried before, by Clinton. Israel is a a country that deserves support, so there is no reason not to support them.

Island Dog

on Dec 15, 2005

Just because I like shooting down col and his distortions.

From the same poll.

“A fourth of those surveyed, 26%, say U.S. forces should leave now, and another 19% say troops should leave after those chosen in this week's election take office. The other half say U.S. troops should stay until security is restored, 31%, until Iraqi forces can operate independently, 16%, or longer, 5%.

So actually col, Iraqis don't want us to leave now either. Of course polls show they don't want us in their country, that doesn't mean we are not appreciated or that we are hated.

Another distortion by the MSM and the col.

Leauki

on Dec 15, 2005

If Poland and France had been ruled by German Nazis before the war, Germany wouldn't have invaded.

Clearly the way to stop war is to let German Nazis rule France and Poland.

Island Dog

on Dec 15, 2005

If it was up to people like col and the other liberals. Hitler would never have been stopped.

COL Gene

on Dec 15, 2005

How do you justify remaining in Iraq when the vast majority want us to go home? Bush's objective was to remove Saddam. We did that now it is up to the Iraqi people.

Island Dog You are NUTS To make a statement that all moslems must be wiped off the planet shows how dumb you are. That would be the END of life in this planet you fool. Look what fighting about 100 million did to Europe. There are more then 10 time more moslems then that . An all out war betweem Moslens and non-Moslems would make WW II look like a play thing.

Welcome Guest! Please take the time to register with us.
There are many great features available to you once you register, including:

Richer content, access to many features that are disabled for guests like commenting on the forums.
Access to a great community, with a massive database of many, many areas of interest.
Access to contests & subscription offers like exclusive emails.
It's simple, and FREE!