dragional

You might also consider if we spent a little more on Stem Cell Research that enabled us to find cures for some diseases, we could end up spending LESS from both Medicare and Medicaid and REDUCE spending on medical as the Boomers retire!

you'll never convince them of those arguments. "Spending more to spend less" is rarely accept by anyone.

Off course, since many of it is bullcrap, I understand why...

And your opinion is based on assumption that stem cell research WILL grant solutions (instead of "may"). And it is based on the assumption that said-solutions will be available cheap for everybody that needs it.

In a land like America, I find the last assumption pretty stupid.

No. Like most people with a basic understanding of economics, the first thing you do when you are spending more than you earn is to figure out ways to cut some spending.

Spending federal dollars on stem cell research is a no brainer thing not to support.

The drug companies don't seem to be short of capital to be doing this kind of research.

Your argument, Gene, demonstrates why again you are a socialist. If it involves the government funding it, you seem to be for it. And you want other people (not you of course) to pay for it.

And even if stem cell research made on those collected on adults is promising, there is a lot more availabilty (thu, more research opportunity) of the embryos, since the % of stem cell within an embryo is sky-higher than those on an adult.

Do a little more research on this. The research on adult stem cells are WAY more promising than the embryonic ones. Or haven't you been paying attention. ALL the major break throughs in the stem cell area has been done with ADULT stem cells. There is nothing to show for the embryonic side.

The impact of what Bush wants to do is limit the amount of money and the pace of the research. The issue none of you address is that the Stem cells that are left over from in-vitro will be DESTROYED as medical waste. Allowing Federally Funded research using these cells will not end a SINGLE human life. That is the issue Bush and all that support his position refuse to accept

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So what? See the above statement. That is one of the reasons why he's cut federal funding in that area. They have "absolutely" NOTHING to show for all their research.

I am not SURE that Embryonic Stem Cell research will cure disease but if we do not do the research I KNOW we will not find the cures. I also understand that the left over stem cells from in-vitro will be destroyed and it seems to me to allow federal Funding using these cells makes more sense then to just have them destroyed as medical waste!

Every left winger seems to forget that fact. They think throwing more money at a failing process will suddenly make it profitable.



and why should MY tax dollars go towards this? I can think of better uses for the money... don't just blither on about how we could tax people more to pay for it.

Lifehappens


There are many researchers that believe the use of embryonic Stem cells hold great promise. I am not a researcher and I doubt that you are one either. The smart thing is to allow the left over Stem cells to be used through in Federally Funded research rather then to just destroy these cells as medical waste. That is what the vast majority of Congress has said and why should Bush stop this research with an argument that does not hold water. No potential life will be destroyed by the use of these left over cells!

I never listed a complaint about potential waste of life....that topic is a moral debate and therefore impossible to change someone's opinion.

I asked, WHY SHOULD IT BE FEDRALLY FUNDED? I still don't see any pressing, REAL evidence that woudl lead it to be a good choice to spend our tax dollars on. WHY SHOULD TAXES PAY FOR A THEORY? It has not been profitable medically or financially and shows only vauge promise of future potential...thre is no evidence to justify the spending of TAX DOLLARS.

So use your free choice, skip the government red tape and donate YOUR money to support the causes that YOU feel need it. Think of all the money you could save by eliminating the middle man!

am not SURE that Embryonic Stem Cell research will cure disease but if we do not do the research I KNOW we will not find the cures. I also understand that the left over stem cells from in-vitro will be destroyed and it seems to me to allow federal Funding using these cells makes more sense then to just have them destroyed as medical waste

"You" can be sure all you want. But EVERY "major" researcher in the stem cell field say the adult stem cells hold more promise to cure things than the embryonic ones. I don't see your problem. Mankind has been able to do in-vitro for years. Stem cell research has been on the plate a lot less time. Just what do you believe happened to "all" the left over cells in the meantime?

Embryonic stem cell quote from wikipedia Because of their plasticity and potentially unlimited capacity for self-renewal, ES cell therapies have been proposed for regenerative medicine and tissue replacement after injury or disease. To date, no approved medical treatments have been derived from embryonic stem cell research.

Also from wikipedia:

Main article: Adult stem cell treatments Adult stem cells are being developed for use in treatments for a variety of human conditions, ranging from blindness to spinal cord injury. Since adult stem cells can be harvested from the patient, potential ethical issues and immunogenic rejection are averted. Although many different kinds of multipotent stem cells have been identified, adult stem cells that could give rise to all cell and tissue types have not yet been found. Adult stem cells are often present in only minute quantities and can therefore be difficult to isolate and purify. Depending on the stem cell type, they can be multiplied in-vitro to therapeutic numbers. Generally though, adult stem cells do not self-renew as effectively as embryonic stem cells. This is especially true of hematopoietic stem cells. There is also limited evidence that adult stem cells may not have the same capacity to multiply as embryonic stem cells. Finally, adult stem cells may contain more DNA abnormalities—caused by sunlight, toxins, and errors in DNA replication the course of a lifetime. However, there are a number of clinically proven adult stem cell successes.

Now name "something" embryonic stem cell has produced. I can tell you in one word. NOTHING!

#20 by COL Gene Mon, April 16, 2007 07:58 AM I am not SURE that Embryonic Stem Cell research will cure disease but if we do not do the research I KNOW we will not find the cures. I also understand that the left over stem cells from in-vitro will be destroyed and it seems to me to allow federal Funding using these cells makes more sense then to just have them destroyed as medical waste!

Just a hint here....THEY ARE DOING THE RESEARCH!!!

For three years I worked as the administrator of the Dept of Biology at the Univ. of Pennsylvania. I saw first hand the research effort and the cost to investigate things like cures for disease. The simple fact is that contributions to private research are good but the reality is that it does not provide a level of funding to move the research along as fast as with the supplement of Federal Funding. That is especially true of basic research as opposed to applied research. What I am saying is the moral argument Bush is making by opposing this bill does NOT rest on a VALID moral objection. The truth is that the left over embryonic Stem Cells from in-vitro fertilization will be destroyed and the use of cells for research does not pose any morel basis for an objection. They will be destroyed if not used in research!

Just a hint here....THEY ARE DOING THE RESEARCH!!! I know that. It is the RATE at which the research is taking place that is the issue. It is also the issue that Congress has approved this funding and the objection of Bush on Moral Grounds is not valid as I have explained above!

This is a lie. You have argued over and over that the President does not understand the problem yet he was the first president to authorize federal funding on the topic. He had some limitations but not large ones and you complained all the way. You don't seem to understand. You can't speed up research by throwing money at it. American socialist always think that throwing money at the problem is the same as solving it. Socialist have been trying to fix the education system since 1964 by throwing money at it. 40 years and one trillion dollars later the scores have dropped like a brick in the ocean. To get into college now a kid needs to go to a prep school to learn what should have been taught in high school. More interest is paid to how the kid feels about himself than learning to read and write or count. It is a fine way of breading an under class of fools that will vote with their heart instead of their heads, People who will vote for the cute candidate or the one with the good hair instead of who will do the best job. You want to get rid of GWB then you need to have smarter people on your side. The people that vote are the ones that go to school, the mindless stooges that are raised in these public schools are so distracted that they can only vote when they are mad and that is not good for your side. It is also why your ignorant or just misleading in order to further your cause of ignorance.

This is a lie. You have argued over and over that the President does not understand the problem yet he was the first president to authorize federal funding on the topic. He had some limitations but not large ones and you complained all the way. You don't seem to understand. You can't speed up research by throwing money at it. American socialist always think that throwing money at the problem is the same as solving it. Socialist have been trying to fix the education system since 1964 by throwing money at it. 40 years and one trillion dollars later the scores have dropped like a brick in the ocean. To get into college now a kid needs to go to a prep school to learn what should have been taught in high school. More interest is paid to how the kid feels about himself than learning to read and write or count. It is a fine way of breading an under class of fools that will vote with their heart instead of their heads, People who will vote for the cute candidate or the one with the good hair instead of who will do the best job. You want to get rid of GWB then you need to have smarter people on your side. The people that vote are the ones that go to school, the mindless stooges that are raised in these public schools are so distracted that they can only vote when they are mad and that is not good for your side. It is also why your ignorant or just misleading in order to further your cause of ignorance.

Yeah, what he said!
Question? if as you say...

Just a hint here....THEY ARE DOING THE RESEARCH!!! I know that. It is the RATE at which the research is taking place that is the issue. It is also the issue that Congress has approved this funding and the objection of Bush on Moral Grounds is not valid as I have explained above!

Then why do you say the exact opposite?

I am not SURE that Embryonic Stem Cell research will cure disease but if we do not do the research I KNOW we will not find the cures. I also understand that the left over stem cells from in-vitro will be destroyed and it seems to me to allow federal Funding using these cells makes more sense then to just have them destroyed as medical waste!

Do you "enjoy" making yourself look foolish? And YOU STILL haven't answered my question!

Mankind has been able to do in-vitro for years. Stem cell research has been on the plate a lot less time. Just what do you believe happened to "all" the left over cells in the meantime?

Paladin77


“ know that. It is the RATE at which the research is taking place that is the issue.


This is a lie. You have argued over and over that the President does not understand the problem yet he was the first president to authorize federal funding on the topic. He had some limitations but not large ones and you complained all the way. You don't seem to understand. You can't speed up research by throwing money at it.”

My statement is NOT A LIE. Research is conducted by separate principal investigators. The likelihood that cures will be discovered increases with more researchers working on the problem. The restriction of federal funding slows the pace of research. You simply do not understand the nature of research.

"Mankind has been able to do in-vitro for years. Stem cell research has been on the plate a lot less time. Just what do you believe happened to "all" the left over cells in the meantime?"

The excess stem cells from in-vitro have always been destroyed when the in-vitro process is over. Today we have an option for those left over cells-- we can use them to help find cures or we can just increate them as medical waste as we did in the past. Thus, why would Bush object to using these left over cells for research since if the are not used in research they will be destroyed?