Evaluation of the policies of George W. Bush and his Republican conservatives on America.
Published on July 21, 2005 By COL Gene In Politics




The articles in Time this week have clarified a number of issues that have been bouncing around Joe User. The first issue is the status of Valerie Plame in the CIA. Many bloggers on Joe User have claimed she was not a covert CIA Agent. The CIA, in a very unusual action, confirmed that Valerie Plame was in fact an NOC covert agent. This is an agent who works undercover without the protection of any diplomatic immunity and are the agents in the most danger for themselves and the contacts that they develop in living their double life for the CIA. These agents are difficult to establish and are the type of agent that was intended to be protected under 1982 Intelligence Identities Protection Act. Unfortunately, this law was designed to be very difficult to violate and the one thing that the Time articles did not address is whether Rove or Libby met all the technical requirements that violated this particular statute.

The second issue that was clearly documented in the Time articles was the fact that it was Karl Rove that first identified Wilsonâ's wife as a CIA operative to Matt Cooper of Time magazine. It was not another reporter, it was Rove. In addition, Rove told Cooper Valerie was involved in the WMD which has also been confirmed by the CIA. In addition, Matt Cooper testified before the grand jury that Scooter Libby, the vice presidentâ's chief of staff, confirmed the fact that Wilsonâ's wife was a CIA operative working on WMD. It is now clear that the two White House staff members mentioned in the Bob Novak article which identified Valerie Plame as a CIA Agent were Rove and Libby.

These two individuals consistently lied saying that they were not involved with identifying Wilsonâ's wife as a CIA agent. It is likely that President Bush was unaware at the outset that Rove and Libby were the White House staffers that outed Plame given the fact that Bush said he would fire the persons responsible for identifying Plame as a CIA agent. No one knows exactly when Bush and Cheney learned it was their principal assistants that had loose lips but Bush has now changed the criteria to being convicted of a crime not merely violating the spirit of law which was to protect agents such as Valerie Plame.

Time magazine has done us a great service in identifying Rove and Libby as liars who endangered one of our CIA. Agents. In addition to the potential harm to Plame, there is the danger to people Valerie Plame worked with while she lived her secret life as a covert agent. That is why the CIA went to the Justice Department and a Special Prosecutor was appointed. It is also the reason that the FBI is conducting a major investigation of this matter. Only Patrick Fitzgerald, the Special Prosecutor will be able to determine whether Rove or Lobby actually violated the complex law intended to protect the identity of clandestine operatives in the CIA. There is no question that Rove and Libby are the people that violated at least the spirit of law and lied to the American people. It is time for President Bush to follow his original commitment to terminate Rove and Libby for their actions in identifying one of our covert CIA Agents.


Comments (Page 2)
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on Jul 22, 2005
Yes, Ignorance abounds with some JoeUser's that will not look at the facts. Every day more and more information comes out as to how far the Bush staff have gone to get their way or defend their policies.
on Jul 22, 2005
Yes, Ignorance abounds with some JoeUser's that will not look at the facts. Every day more and more information comes out as to how far the Bush staff have gone to get their way or defend their policies.


Col have you ever admitted the lies and distortions that you post?

Do you understand the prosecutor has said Rove is the target of the investigation?

Do you understand this is not about Plame, but just an attempt to smear Rove.

Do you understand Rove has not committed a crime?

Do you understand anything col?
on Jul 22, 2005
"Yes, Ignorance abounds with some JoeUser's that will not look at the facts."


Like people who try to talk about Wilson, and who don't even know what his job was or what his report said, or what the final judgement from the investigation on it concluded. Like people who just cut and paste their opinions from Democratic pundits and don't bother to read or investigate anything for themselves, just monotonously reciting the same argument over and over like some sort of silly bird...

Like you, Col.
on Jul 22, 2005
IslamdDog

NOTHING I have said is untrue. I have said the issue of Rove being in violation of the complex law is an open question. What is not in doubt is that he and Libby outed Mrs Plame to Cooper from Cooper's sworn testimony befire the GJ. it is possible that Rove was clever enough not to violate this very complex law, however he did identify a covert CIA agent to a member of the news media as did Libby. In effect, Rove and Libby accomplished what the law was trying to prevent which is to identify covert agents to the public. For that reason, they should be removed from their positions of trust in this government. Bush said he would remove anyone that provide the identity of Mrs. Plame to the news media. It is now time for him to the follow through on with what he said he would do at the time this incident became public.
on Jul 22, 2005
Has anybody besides Gene and myself actually read the Time articles?

If so, would anybody like to share their thoughts on what was actually written in them, as Gene has and I shall?
on Jul 22, 2005
Bush said he would remove anyone that provide the identity of Mrs. Plame to the news media. It is now time for him to the follow through on with what he said he would do at the time this incident became public.


Bush said he would remove anyone who violated the law. That hasn't happened.

Rove didn't "out" Plame, someone else did col. Do you understand Rove is not the target of the investigation?


Has anybody besides Gene and myself actually read the Time articles?


Col only reads the parts that he can distort to make it look like he's right.
on Jul 22, 2005
Cooper testified Rove was the FIRST person to tell him Plame was a CIA Agent and that Libby confirmed it. YOU ARE WRONG, Island Dog! Read what he told the GJ in the TIME articles!
on Jul 22, 2005
Gene is right. Cooper did say that Rove was the one who told him that Valerie Plame worked for the CIA.

On the other hand, Cooper did not claim that Rove told him Plame was a covert CIA agent. Furthermore, after considering the testimony and the other evidence, neither the prosecutor nor the Grand Jury saw fit to indict Rove.

Question for you, Gene: Are you willing to accept the judgement of the Grand Jury, and the prosecutor?
on Jul 22, 2005
The Grand Jury and the SP will deal with the law. There is the Intel Identities Protection Act which is very complex and there now seems to be the possibility of perjury and obstruction of justice since the testimony of Rove and Libby does not appear to be an agreement with the testimony and notes/E-mails of Cooper, Novak and others. We will all have to accept the legal decision of the SP. There is however the other issue that even if Rove or Libby have not violated the letter of the law, the issue of them providing the idendity of Mrs. Plame to the press can not be ignored. There is NO QUESTION that both of them did tell Cooper and most likely Novak that Plame was a CIA Agent and lied about that fact for the past two years! People like this should NOT be in positions of responsibility in our government!
on Jul 22, 2005
Although Gene is not willing to understand or admit it, these two statements do NOT have the same meaning:

1. "Rove mentioned in passing that he'd heard Wilson's wife, who apparently works at the Agency, put him up for the job."

2. "Rove told Cooper that Valerie Plame worked for the CIA and was a covert agent."

Cheers,
Daiwa
on Jul 22, 2005
You might read the Washington Post Article today which clearly states that the information that Valerie Plame was a covert CIA agent was classsified " Secret"


You, and the Post, are completely misrepresenting the facts here, Gene. A document which contained Plame's married name was marked Secret. Plame was in no way, shape or form identified in that document as a covert agent; her identity was not claimed in that document to be secret. By the logic being attempted here, the existence of a Secret document that contains information identifying George Bush as our President would preclude disclosing that George Bush is our President. And there is no evidence Rove or Libby ever saw the document in question, anyway.

Cheers,
Daiwa
on Jul 22, 2005
Is it just me, or does anyone else see the incredible irony here?

The people attempting to lynch Rove for an alleged leak of classified information, by all accounts unintentional at worst, are attempting to use as evidence against him a barrage of leaks of classified information. And they're having to stretch those to make them relevant. It's just all a little rich. Do we now need another Special Prosecutor to find out who leaked the State Department memo? I said before, this is SO through the looking glass. I don't see how anything could be more hypocritical - willingly using leaks of classified information to try to nail someone for allegedly leaking classified info.

Cheers,
Daiwa
on Jul 23, 2005
The issue is that Mrs. Plame was identified as a CIA Agent as a result of the statements Rove and Libby made to Cooper and most likely to Novak. The CIA has stated that the outing of Mrs Plame as a CIA Agent was a serious matter and that she WAS covered by the 1982 Act that was intended to prevent what Rove and Lobby accomplished. Rove and Libby LIED to the public about their part in this case for the past two years. The differences between the Cooper E-Mails and his testimony and the testimony of others like Novak and what Rove and Libby have said to the GJ, may cause Rove and Libby other legal problems. The actions of these two very senior officials are not the actions of people we should have in the U S Government!
on Jul 23, 2005
Hey butthead!


Name calling again. I go away for two weeks, and come back to your juvenile discourse. Truly, I cannot understand why JU doesn't blacklist you.

As for the issue at hand, I find it interesting that now that the truth is out, you all are so twisting it in order to somehow vindicate your positions that the republicans in our white house are so pure and trustworthy and right. What crap. They are lying, arrogant and corrupt. The way the righties on ju buy into the corruption is so mindboggling. Amazing the way you ready to have Clinton thrown out of office and ready to go to jail for lying about a blow job before he was even convicted of this mindboggling dumb infraction. But, Rove and Libby out a CIA operative and you guys rationalize it away.

Hmmmmmm.......... lying about a blow job to Congress?................. or, releasing classified CIA information to the press which had the potential of compromising national security? Which is worse? Yeah, lying about a blow job, no doubt. In fact, lying to a special prosecutor about this release of classified information is not quite as bad as lying about a blow job.

Freakin' amazing.
on Jul 23, 2005
Hey butthead!


Name calling again. I go away for two weeks, and come back to your juvenile discourse. Truly, I cannot understand why JU doesn't blacklist you.

As for the issue at hand, I find it interesting that now that the truth is out, you all are so twisting it in order to somehow vindicate your positions that the republicans in our white house are so pure and trustworthy and right. What crap. They are lying, arrogant and corrupt. The way the righties on ju buy into the corruption is so mindboggling. Amazing the way you ready to have Clinton thrown out of office and ready to go to jail for lying about a blow job before he was even convicted of this mindboggling dumb infraction. But, Rove and Libby out a CIA operative and you guys rationalize it away.

Hmmmmmm.......... lying about a blow job to Congress?................. or, releasing classified CIA information to the press which had the potential of compromising national security? Which is worse? Yeah, lying about a blow job, no doubt. In fact, lying to a special prosecutor about this release of classified information is not quite as bad as lying about a blow job.

Freakin' amazing.


No what's amazing is you jumping into the middle of an argument without knowing all the facts about what has gone before. And just for your info....the truth is NOT out! If it were Rove would also be under investigation along with everyone else. But guess what? He's not! The prosecutor has even stated this multiple times.

In fact, lying to a special prosecutor about this release of classified information is not quite as bad as lying about a blow job.


Got ANY proof on this? Your just as bad as col. Wait until the investigation is finished "before" you start laying blame or assigning guilt!

You could disappear for yet another 2 weeks. You weren't missed the first time and I would seriously doubt that you'd be missed this time.
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