Evaluation of the policies of George W. Bush and his Republican conservatives on America.
Published on July 21, 2005 By COL Gene In Politics




The articles in Time this week have clarified a number of issues that have been bouncing around Joe User. The first issue is the status of Valerie Plame in the CIA. Many bloggers on Joe User have claimed she was not a covert CIA Agent. The CIA, in a very unusual action, confirmed that Valerie Plame was in fact an NOC covert agent. This is an agent who works undercover without the protection of any diplomatic immunity and are the agents in the most danger for themselves and the contacts that they develop in living their double life for the CIA. These agents are difficult to establish and are the type of agent that was intended to be protected under 1982 Intelligence Identities Protection Act. Unfortunately, this law was designed to be very difficult to violate and the one thing that the Time articles did not address is whether Rove or Libby met all the technical requirements that violated this particular statute.

The second issue that was clearly documented in the Time articles was the fact that it was Karl Rove that first identified Wilsonâ's wife as a CIA operative to Matt Cooper of Time magazine. It was not another reporter, it was Rove. In addition, Rove told Cooper Valerie was involved in the WMD which has also been confirmed by the CIA. In addition, Matt Cooper testified before the grand jury that Scooter Libby, the vice presidentâ's chief of staff, confirmed the fact that Wilsonâ's wife was a CIA operative working on WMD. It is now clear that the two White House staff members mentioned in the Bob Novak article which identified Valerie Plame as a CIA Agent were Rove and Libby.

These two individuals consistently lied saying that they were not involved with identifying Wilsonâ's wife as a CIA agent. It is likely that President Bush was unaware at the outset that Rove and Libby were the White House staffers that outed Plame given the fact that Bush said he would fire the persons responsible for identifying Plame as a CIA agent. No one knows exactly when Bush and Cheney learned it was their principal assistants that had loose lips but Bush has now changed the criteria to being convicted of a crime not merely violating the spirit of law which was to protect agents such as Valerie Plame.

Time magazine has done us a great service in identifying Rove and Libby as liars who endangered one of our CIA. Agents. In addition to the potential harm to Plame, there is the danger to people Valerie Plame worked with while she lived her secret life as a covert agent. That is why the CIA went to the Justice Department and a Special Prosecutor was appointed. It is also the reason that the FBI is conducting a major investigation of this matter. Only Patrick Fitzgerald, the Special Prosecutor will be able to determine whether Rove or Lobby actually violated the complex law intended to protect the identity of clandestine operatives in the CIA. There is no question that Rove and Libby are the people that violated at least the spirit of law and lied to the American people. It is time for President Bush to follow his original commitment to terminate Rove and Libby for their actions in identifying one of our covert CIA Agents.


Comments (Page 7)
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on Jul 28, 2005
(Also, trying to get COL to let go of his...'facts', is like talking to a wall, or, banging your head against a wall...neither is getting you anywhere...)
on Jul 28, 2005

Cooper appeared on TV and said he learned Wiklson's wife was a CIA Agent who worked on WMD from Rove and that Libby confirmed that. ALL else is BS. Rove has a BIG mouth talking to the press about CIA Agents. What the Hell is the Presidents Political advisor ( That is what he was at that time) doing talking to trhe press about our CIA Agents? How about one of you blind Bushies answer that question!!!!!!!!! Cooper said in TIME " This is the first time I had heard anything about Wilson's wife" There is no doubt, Cooper learned Mrs Plame was a CIA agent from Rove!


YOUR the one that's BS! The quote on reply #78 is DIRECT from Cooper to Time. Read the ENTIRE quote not just select parts of it. Get a clue ya old jerk!
on Jul 28, 2005
just a thought.....


A posted thought.

Some threads are like bad wrecks on the freeway - you know you shouldn't slow down & look but you just can't help it. No big deal. I have no illusions. Gives my brain a workout even if it doesn't his.

Cheers,
Daiwa
on Jul 29, 2005
And it's not that Wilson "wasn't playing ball" - he was blatantly misrepresenting his findings and report, as confirmed by the bipartisan Senate committee that investigated his claims.


you have a source for the blatant misrepresentation or that confirmation. i've read the report more times than i care to admit. if it's there, i must have missed it.
on Jul 29, 2005
Some threads are like bad wrecks on the freeway - you know you shouldn't slow down & look but you just can't help it


-I know...i feel horrible after looking, but its hard not to look...(it is said that at a human's "base/core", they are 'savage beasts'...and that only through development they have become what they are today...)
on Jul 29, 2005
Jeez Miler, do you have to always result to petty name calling when you're out of ammo?

Grow up. Or better yet, wake up! This is after all the COL's blog. You don't like it, don't read it!
on Jul 29, 2005

Jeez Miler, do you have to always result to petty name calling when you're out of ammo?


This tells me one of two things is going on. Either a)You haven't read the whole thread, or b)your not comprehending all that you read. I'm not really sure which it is. The reason I say this is because "I'm" not the one out of ammo here. I can very easily refute ANY claim he has made on this thread and I'm not the only one that can. But when I or others have refuted something he has said, he dances around it and just says the same exact thing all over again. And there starts the dance. He's the one that needs to wake up not me. Just a for instance go read replies #72 & 73. Either that or this is payback for replies #82 & 83. And btw...."if" you actually knew me you'd know that what I called him shows that I'm being nice. What was going through my mind was a LOT worse!
on Jul 29, 2005
IF the Outing of Wilson's wife as a CIA Agent ( The CIA has stated Mrs Plame WAS a protected Agent) was due to the Wilson Report, then it was PAYBACK by Rove and Lobby as many believe. There was NO REASON why the President's POLITICAL ADVISOR should have been talking to the press about our CIA Agents and he was aware that the information was CLASSIFIED when he talked with Cooper and Novak. It is time to learn what Rove told Novak on their July 6th call!
on Jul 29, 2005
I see you have ignored once again the facts presented to you col. Will you finally admit you have been proved wrong again?
on Jul 29, 2005
kingbee -

Wasn't Wilson claiming that Bush's SOU statement that British intelligence had information suggesting Iraq had sought nuclear materials from Niger was a lie and that his report proved it? The Senate committee concluded that his report actually buttressed the suspicion that Iraq had sought to obtain such materials from Niger, though it never came to pass. Do you have information indicating otherwise?

Cheers,
Daiwa
on Jul 29, 2005
So in the shower this morning, I began to wonder... Who do we know has said Plame was a secret agent?

We know that Rove didn't say it. He said she worked for the CIA. Never mentioned undercover or secret agent status. Since she was working at CIA headquarters, under her own name, it doesn't seem like a breach of security to mention this fact.

We know that Novak didn't say it. In fact, he told us that if he'd known she was undercover, he never would've mentioned her name.

We know that columnist David Corn didn't say it, but that he did pose the hypothetical: What if Valerie Plame is a secret agent, and what if the White House outed her to get back at Wilson?

We know that Joe Wilson affirmed Corn's hypotheticals, saying yes, that's exactly the case: my wife is a secret agent.

We know that Valerie Plame (and Joe Wilson) cooperated with Vanity Fair on a cover story in that magazine about her secret agent status.

We know that the CIA has confirmed that she is (was?) a secret agent.

Given what we know, Gene, why aren't you questioning Joe Wilson's patriotism?
on Jul 29, 2005
There is no confirmation that Saddam tried to purchase Yellow cake in Niger. Even the Bush administration withdrew that claim. Years of searching Iraq has proven there was no active nuclear program that threatened the US or for that matter anyone else. The BS from Bush and Cheney about the mushroom clouds were a lie. They could have allowed the weapons inspectors to learn what we have finally found out that there were no WMD in Iraq. All the rhetoric about the Iraq war being part of the war of the war on terrorism is so much baloney. Anyone that believes we have resolved or for that matter made ourselves materially safer from the radical Moslem extremists need only look at what is taking place in London. If anything, we have enraged the radical elements that hate us and given the amunition to recruit many more people that will kill themselves in order to harm us. We have given them a new training ground called Iraq. There was no major terrorist operation in Iraq before we invaded. Days turn into the weeks turn in the months and are now turning into years and the violence continues. When we leave it is very likely that country will disintegrate and we will have done absolutely nothing for either the Iraq people or to help secure the United States.

The CIA had said the outing of Mrs Plame WAS A SERIOUS MATTER. Thery know far better then anyone on JoeUser as the seriousness of this matter.
on Jul 29, 2005
Gene, let's assume that the CIA is correct: outing Plame is a serious matter.

Why are you so freaked out about Rove, who never claimed that Plame was a secret agent, and totally unconcerned about Joe Wilson, who has made repeated public statements confirming that she is a secret agent?

No matter how accurate his Niger report may have been, it doesn't at all change the fact that as far as we know, Joe Wilson and his wife are the only people who have actually said, in public, that Plame was a secret agent.
on Jul 29, 2005
There is no confirmation that Saddam tried to purchase Yellow cake in Niger. Even the Bush administration withdrew that claim. Years of searching Iraq has proven there was no active nuclear program that threatened the US or for that matter anyone else. The BS from Bush and Cheney about the mushroom clouds were a lie. They could have allowed the weapons inspectors to learn what we have finally found out that there were no WMD in Iraq. All the rhetoric about the Iraq war being part of the war of the war on terrorism is so much baloney. Anyone that believes we have resolved or for that matter made ourselves materially safer from the radical Moslem extremists need only look at what is taking place in London. If anything, we have enraged the radical elements that hate us and given the amunition to recruit many more people that will kill themselves in order to harm us. We have given them a new training ground called Iraq. There was no major terrorist operation in Iraq before we invaded. Days turn into the weeks turn in the months and are now turning into years and the violence continues. When we leave it is very likely that country will disintegrate and we will have done absolutely nothing for either the Iraq people or to help secure the United States.


And just what the hell does "this" have to do with the topic at hand? Or are you changing topics again because you know your fighting a losing battle?
on Jul 29, 2005
Rove outed Mrs Plame. He did not have to use her maden name or say she was a secret agent. Cooper has testified he learned, for the FIRST TIME from Rove that Mrs Wilson was a CIA Agent working on WMD! Lobby confirmed what Rove told him. It is VERY likely that Rove and Lobby are also the sources Novak used for his article! Rove was the political advisir and had NO BUSINESS talking to reporters about our CIA Agents! How did he get that classified information? There is a principal in security of "Need to Know" Rove had no need to know who our CIA Agents were as the political advisor!
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